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View Poll Results: In this scenario what would you do as a parent?
Get the abortion? 7 20.00%
Try to carry the baby to term? 21 60.00%
If yes on 1, Get it at week 12 before confirmation 4 11.43%
If yes on 1, Get it at week 16 amnio only confirmation 4 11.43%
If yes on 1, Get it week 17 to 22 with 100% confirmation 3 8.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll
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Washington DC and The Holy Land>Real Talk: Abortion For or Against
Nirvana58 09:38 AM 07-08-2020
You just went to the doctor and found out you and your wife are 12 weeks along with a baby boy. However, they ran an NIPT blood test and say that you are 84% likely that the baby you are having has Edwards Syndrome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_syndrome

If you don't know what that is I linked the wiki page. Summary is this is basically the worst disease imaginable that I can think of. The average life span of children born with this is 3 to 14 days. Most babies are born still born if they even make it that far. It is even worst for male children who it seems to effect even more severely. Basically this is every parents worst nightmare.

The doctors can't 100% confirm until you receive an amnio and ultra sounds. This can be around 17 to 20 weeks along in your pregnancy. Even for a rush screening with amnio only you won't be able to get the results and make a decision on the abortion till 16 weeks if your lucky.

You can get a CVS earlier but doctors pretty much retired that for the NIPT test that you already received.

No matter your stance on abortion what do you do in this scenario? I am asking you to put yourself in the parents shoes and state your answer. This is not some hypothetical. People have to make this choice every year.

I have 2 questions for you. I will try to link the poll but never done one so we will see what happens.

Do you get an abortion or take it to delivery which most likely will be a still born or have an average life span of 3 to 14 days?

If you do decide to get an abortion when do you do it? The longer you wait the less humane it is but can you abort a child without 100% certainty it has this disease?

You can explain your reasoning or any questions in the replies.
[Reply]
Nirvana58 08:24 PM 07-08-2020
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Before I answer, lets frame the question a little more accurately:

I am a prenatal human being with Edwards Syndrome. Would I want someone to kill me?

My answer is no.

As a side note, someone who you might remember that ran for president fairly recently has child with Edwards Syndrome who recently turned 12.

https://www.liveaction.org/news/bell...tible-life-12/
Cases like this I wonder if these kids have partial or mosaic chromosome 18 abnormality. They still have Edwards syndrome but not near as devastating.
[Reply]
vailpass 08:27 PM 07-08-2020
Wow. We have a few monsters here.
[Reply]
Raiderhader 09:10 PM 07-08-2020
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
It is very interesting looking at the poll results and comparing them to real world. Some of it might be grandstanding and people would make a different decision if actually put in this position.

It could also be that this board leans more right and pro life than the rest of America. Which is kind of scary seeing how much farther left this board has become since I originally joined.

However, some case studies following pregnant women diagnosed with Edwards syndrome have an abortion rate of around 78%. Some studies even show that to be much higher.

I hope more people answer the poll and we see what the numbers end up shaking out too. Either way there is no wrong answer here. It is a terrible situation and I could easily pick any of the options and make a case for it.
Scary in what way, exactly? Scary in how far right it was originally? Scary in how far left the rest of the country has moved in that time? Or scary in the idea that the national polls leave us with no real idea where the public stands on such ideas because even in anonymous polls people are scared to answer honestly for how their answers will be perceived?
[Reply]
Nirvana58 09:40 PM 07-08-2020
Originally Posted by Raiderhader:
Scary in what way, exactly? Scary in how far right it was originally? Scary in how far left the rest of the country has moved in that time? Or scary in the idea that the national polls leave us with no real idea where the public stands on such ideas because even in anonymous polls people are scared to answer honestly for how their answers will be perceived?
Yes
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 10:08 PM 07-08-2020
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
Cases like this I wonder if these kids have partial or mosaic chromosome 18 abnormality. They still have Edwards syndrome but not near as devastating.
The lesson gleaned from the Santorum's is even if your children have a devastating genetic abnormality don't give up on them and kill them. Every child deserves to be loved and cherished.
[Reply]
Nirvana58 11:34 PM 07-08-2020
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
The lesson gleaned from the Santorum's is even if your children have a devastating genetic abnormality don't give up on them and kill them. Every child deserves to be loved and cherished.
Its a great story but no where near the norm. They probably knew from the ultra sounds what level of birth defects they could expect. Hopefully she had only a partial or mosaic abnormality and continues to do well.

That is like saying look at this guy. He won the lottery. I should go put all my money in lottery tickets.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 12:06 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
Its a great story but no where near the norm. They probably knew from the ultra sounds what level of birth defects they could expect. Hopefully she had only a partial or mosaic abnormality and continues to do well.

That is like saying look at this guy. He won the lottery. I should go put all my money in lottery tickets.
You may not realize it but you are inventing facts now in an attempt to bolster your extremely weak position. It isn't going to help you though. The Santorum's are people who accept what God gives them instead of giving up and killing their children before they are born because the child doesn't meet their expectation. Whether you believe in God or not there is a lesson there. Besides, If the child had the really bad kind of Edwards syndrome, it wouldn't change their decisions.....and for all you really know, Bella has the really bad kind.

Rick Santorum never struck me as some one in possession of a brilliant mind. He does strike me as some one in possession of an overwhelming heart though. He has my respect and I would like to be like him.....only a little bit smarter.
[Reply]
Just Passin' By 01:00 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
Its a great story but no where near the norm. They probably knew from the ultra sounds what level of birth defects they could expect. Hopefully she had only a partial or mosaic abnormality and continues to do well.

That is like saying look at this guy. He won the lottery. I should go put all my money in lottery tickets.
First, with regards to the lottery comparison

Originally Posted by :
But according to a new study, a significant number of children with the condition are actually surviving to older ages, though it takes a lot of medical care to keep them going.

More than a third of hospitalizations for Trisomy 18 and the closely related Trisomy 13 over the past 15 years were for children more than a year old, the study said. In more than 10 percent of the cases, the child was beyond age 8.

Study author Dr. Chris Feudtner said the analysis, published today in the journal Pediatrics, shows that the conventional thinking that the disease is lethal is not totally accurate.

"The norm is still great difficulty with survivorship for most of the children. But to say that is true for most does not mean that is true for all," he said.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/trisom...ry?id=16090571

That's a few years old, and the numbers have probably improved by then. But, clearly, we're not talking about lottery-like odds for exceptions.



Second, with regards to when the Santorums knew

Originally Posted by :
“We got the diagnosis on our little girl Bella four days after her birth. It was a really hard time. You know, we weren’t expecting it and so it was really hard,” she said. “We had lost a baby so that’s all I can think about was ‘I can’t go through this again.’
https://www.lifenews.com/2018/06/19/...ust-turned-10/
[Reply]
stevieray 01:02 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by Nirvana58:
You believe that getting an abortion is murder. That is your right and you can state that.

Attacking me for putting a real life scenario that many people have had to go through as ghoulish and murder for my own nobility is uncalled for.
It is murder. look up the definition. usually when your spinal cord is cut in half by scissors, ya, you tend to DIE.

Attacking? lol

I said the thread was ghoulish.

Trying to say that others don't have compassion because they won't kill the child is..well...fake nobility.
[Reply]
idrapethat 01:11 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Every child deserves to be loved and cherished.
I think michael jackson coined that phrase.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 01:34 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by idrapethat:
I think michael jackson coined that phrase.
You remember laughing at Michael Jackson wearing a mask and gloves?

Now Joe Biden is all out there looking like he wanna be starting something wearing his masks and molesten children too! What do Joe Biden, Michael Jackson and caviar have in comon?

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Nirvana58 01:50 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
You may not realize it but you are inventing facts now in an attempt to bolster your extremely weak position. It isn't going to help you though. The Santorum's are people who accept what God gives them instead of giving up and killing their children before they are born because the child doesn't meet their expectation. Whether you believe in God or not there is a lesson there. Besides, If the child had the really bad kind of Edwards syndrome, it wouldn't change their decisions.....and for all you really know, Bella has the really bad kind.

Rick Santorum never struck me as some one in possession of a brilliant mind. He does strike me as some one in possession of an overwhelming heart though. He has my respect and I would like to be like him.....only a little bit smarter.
I said that more in line with it is usually hard to find a doctor willing to do heart surgery on a new born with Edwards syndrome. I figured they must of been a good canidate and set it up ahead of time.
[Reply]
Nirvana58 01:55 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by stevieray:
It is murder. look up the definition. usually when your spinal cord is cut in half by scissors, ya, you tend to DIE.

Attacking? lol

I said the thread was ghoulish.

Trying to say that others don't have compassion because they won't kill the child is..well...fake nobility.
You are just making shit up at this point. I stated compassion about the situation which would be hard for anybody. But have at your little pompous party.

It has always been amazing to me how some people can use religion as a crutch to look down or just be vicious to other people.
[Reply]
idrapethat 02:06 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
You remember laughing at Michael Jackson wearing a mask and gloves?

Now Joe Biden is all out there looking like he wanna be starting something wearing his masks and molesten children too! What do Joe Biden, Michael Jackson and caviar have in comon?

Spoiler!
Wtf. I'm not sure why but your post has me creeped the fuck out.
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 02:27 AM 07-09-2020
Originally Posted by idrapethat:
Wtf. I'm not sure why but your post has me creeped the **** out.
Well imagining yourself as Michael Jackson is a little creepy.

Spoiler!

[Reply]
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