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Nzoner's Game Room>Deshaun Watson is not a top 10 QB
dlphg9 02:09 AM 10-27-2020
Deshaun Watson is constantly getting praised as one of the best young QBs. Hell before the season people were saying he was 2nd best behind Mahomes. I'm here to tell you that he's not even in the top 10.

Deshaun Watson did have a bad GM in B.O.B, but he wasn't that bad as a coach. He always had the Texans respectable, but what he did to that franchise as a GM is senile. That doesn't mean he has to be the scape goat for every time Watson makes a mistake or can't close out a game. Watson was one of/if not the main reason for the playoff loss to the Chiefs. No elite QB is going to allow an opponent to run away with a game after being up 24-0. Another scape goat Watson has is his O line. He is terrible in the pocket and is the main reason for his high sack rate.

He has had success in his past seasons and it seems to me that a lot of that success was due to DeAndre Hopkins ability to catch everything that was anywhere close to him. He made that team so much better and was more important than Watson. Just look at this year what has happened in Houston. Hopkins got traded and the team literally fell apart and Watson has been absolute trash. Now how is he trash when he's on pace for 4800 yards and 34 TDs? He's a god damn garbage time all star, but he struts around like he's playing like an all pro and that his team is trash.

He has sucked shit in the 1st quarter all year and is one of the main reasons why his team is always playing from behind. In the 1st quarter of games this year he is

27/46, 58.7% comp, 285 yards, 1 TD, 13 1st down passes. That's in 7 fucking games! Almost half a season and he's managed 1 passing TD and a measly 285 yds in the first quarter. Compare that to his 4th quarter stats when he can just throw it against a prevent defense when his team is down double digits. 50/74, 67.5% comp, 685 yds, 7 TDs, 2 Ints. These numbers would be elite and he'd be considered clutch if they'd would have won more than one game.

This is the score of all of his games this year going into the 4th quarter and a little of what transpires

KC - 24 - 7

Balt - 23 - 10

Pit - 20 - 21
Houston was up, but Watson threw an int during an 8 play 42 yd drive at the beginning of the 4th quarter and Pitt capitalized and scored the go ahead TD right after that. Watson gets the ball back down a TD, but he takes one of his patented sacks and goes 3 and out and never sees the ball again. With how great he's been in the 4th quarter this year and how elite he is you'd expect more than 45 yds and an int in the 4th, but he choked the game away.

Min - 24 - 16
Deshaun had a chance to tie the game, but couldn't punch it in when they had the ball with around a minute left 2nd down and 1 yard to go from the Minnesota 1. David Johnson tries to run it in and gets stuffed. Then on 3rd down Watson is running an option and gets scared of a big hit, so he tosses it to David and David doesn't catch it, but he recovers the fumble and it's a 4 yard loss. 4th and 5 gives Watson a chance to redeem himself, but he thinks DeAndre Hopkins is out there running a route and will bail out his shitty overthrown fade route. Not DeAndre does his best, but he can't overcome Watson's shit ball.

Jax - Houston's only win!

Ten -
Deshaun tries really hard, but for some dumb shit reason the Texans go up 7 with 1:53 left in the game and Romeo oh Romeo says "Hey Mr Clutch, go out there and get us 2 points, so this game is over" and Deshaun replies "no probs Romeo O'Brien, I mean Bill, I got this", but Mr. Clutch ain't so clutch and two point conv fails. Ten scores a TD, makes XP, gets ball in OT and drives down for a win.

GB - 28 - 7, but Deshaun tears that prevent up in the 4th and racks up those garbage time numbers to the tune of 100 yards and a TD. 72 and the TD of those yards came in one drive when it really mattered down 35 to 14 with 3:40 left in the game a 2 minute drive to make it a 2 score game. Real nail biter.

Deshaun fucking sucks. He ain't shit. He got paid and will continually get talked as if he's some elite QB on a team devoid of talent because B.O.B fucked the franchise. Watson is gonna hit free agency in a few years and get another huge deal because it's not his fault the team never gets above 8-8 again. He will be shitting the bed in the first year of his next deal and everyone will be wondering why Bill O' Brien and his offensive line are still preventing him from winning a game.

Eat shit DeBerg
[Reply]
DRM08 10:44 AM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"
What Patrick does is far more sustainable than what Deshaun was doing his rookie year. We saw yesterday how much of an insane miracle worker Hopkins is. Freaking triple coverage and the dude comes down with the incredible TD catch, making Kyler Murray look good on a bad throw into coverage. Hopkins did this repeatedly for Deshaun during their time together in Houston.

You rarely see Mahomes getting bailed out by his receivers in that manner. Usually Patrick is throwing to open guys or making unbelievable throws that only his guys can catch. Sometimes his guys are open as a direct result of Patrick using his eyes to manipulate defenders and physical ability to throw no-look passes that other QB's cannot attempt.
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RunKC 11:42 AM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.
Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (retard)
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htismaqe 12:06 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Watson is basically Alex Smith?

Never go full dlphg9 (retard)
He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.
[Reply]
Megatron96 12:21 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.
Eh, Deshaun could have where Alex couldn't, IMO.

Deshaun is obviously a better athlete, certainly much faster and elusive than Alex. And he's more willing to go downfield.

And Alex made it to the AFCCG once, and should've won that game, if not for his overly cautious nature preventing him from taking shots downfield when he really needed to do so. And the same could be said of some of the Chiefs other playoff games with Alex at the helm.

The other way to look at it would be "if Deshaun had been the Chiefs QB in some of those playoff games and not Alex, would the Chiefs have had a better chance to win some of them?" and I think the answer is probably yes.
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RunKC 12:25 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
He obviously isn't as scared to throw deep as Alex.

Doesn't mean he's all that much better. Because he's not.

Without a WR like Hopkins, he might never win a playoff game.
Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.
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htismaqe 12:37 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Alex Smith’s career year was his last in KC. Watson has topped his career year (easily on pace to before getting hurt as a rookie) every single year of his career including this one without Hopkins.

He’s not in the same conversation as Alex at all. He’s significantly better.
Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.
[Reply]
DRM08 12:42 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.
I think he's overpaid for sure. But in terms of the Alex Smith comparison, Alex did have the likes of Andy Reid, Kelce, & Tyreek boosting his stats. You put Deshaun in the Andy system with those weapons and he would probably look better than Alex. His QB coach and system designer has been Bill O'Brien. Not a very good situation for any QB.
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htismaqe 12:56 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by DRM08:
I think he's overpaid for sure. But in terms of the Alex Smith comparison, Alex did have the likes of Andy Reid, Kelce, & Tyreek boosting his stats. You put Deshaun in the Andy system with those weapons and he would probably look better than Alex. His QB coach and system designer has been Bill O'Brien. Not a very good situation for any QB.
If Bill O'Brien held him back THAT much, he's not a top 10 QB.

Aaron Rodgers overcame Mike McCarthy. Russell Wilson has overcome Pete Carroll. You could list lots of QB's that have won in spite of their coaches.

QB's drive the NFL. Watson is not good enough to consistently do that.
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Deberg_1990 01:00 PM 11-16-2020
Kyler Murray and Josh Allen have now surpassed Watson.
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DRM08 01:16 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
If Bill O'Brien held him back THAT much, he's not a top 10 QB.

Aaron Rodgers overcame Mike McCarthy. Russell Wilson has overcome Pete Carroll. You could list lots of QB's that have won in spite of their coaches.

QB's drive the NFL. Watson is not good enough to consistently do that.
Fair points on Rodgers & Wilson. But I think there is a big difference between being a Top 10 QB and being an elite QB. The elite QB is very, very small group at any given time in the league. Right now I think it's only 3 guys (Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson). The 10th best QB in the league is nowhere close to a Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson in my view.

Andy Reid is pretty amazing at getting very good QB play even from 7/11 clerk type of guys. You give him Deshaun Watson and he would get pretty damn good results. Probably better than Alex Smith.
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htismaqe 01:23 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Fair points on Rodgers & Wilson. But I think there is a big difference between being a Top 10 QB and being an elite QB. The elite QB is very, very small group at any given time in the league. Right now I think it's only 3 guys (Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson). The 10th best QB in the league is nowhere close to a Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson in my view.

Andy Reid is pretty amazing at getting very good QB play even from 7/11 clerk type of guys. You give him Deshaun Watson and he would get pretty damn good results. Probably better than Alex Smith.
My problem with Watson is that he's a compiler. It's the same issue I had with Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, and several other QB's that people fawned over when they entered the league.

When you watch Watson play, especially his body language when things aren't going his way, you don't see a guy that rises to the occasion. You see a guy that basically shrugs his shoulders or pouts.

Being a true top QB in this league requires more than physical talent. It requires football IQ, desire, and the ability to rise above. I don't see those things in Watson really at all.
[Reply]
DRM08 01:27 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
My problem with Watson is that he's a compiler. It's the same issue I had with Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, and several other QB's that people fawned over when they entered the league.

When you watch Watson play, especially his body language when things aren't going his way, you don't see a guy that rises to the occasion. You see a guy that basically shrugs his shoulders or pouts.

Being a true top QB in this league requires more than physical talent. It requires football IQ, desire, and the ability to rise above. I don't see those things in Watson really at all.
Deshaun has racked up his fair share of garbage time stats, no doubt about it. Similar to Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins (Matt Ryan too as you mentioned).

That's one of the most amazing things about Mahomes. He's never been blown out in the NFL, so you can't accuse him of padding stats in garbage time. His team has never been down big enough to call any of their 4th quarter trailing situations "garbage time" against the prevent defense that is trying to burn clock.
[Reply]
mr. tegu 01:38 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Deshaun has racked up his fair share of garbage time stats, no doubt about it. Similar to Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins (Matt Ryan too as you mentioned).

That's one of the most amazing things about Mahomes. He's never been blown out in the NFL, so you can't accuse him of padding stats in garbage time. His team has never been down big enough to call any of their 4th quarter trailing situations "garbage time" against the prevent defense that is trying to burn clock.

Mahomes would have at least 5-10 more TDs a season if they padded stats with the lead like the Ravens consistently do or Brady yesterday throwing a garbage time TD to Gronk of all people. Don’t think those two need the reps.
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RunKC 02:22 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Stats are stats. It's about much more than that.

Watson is a borderline top 12 QB. Nothing more.

Last year, he was about 7th by all the metrics. In 2018, he was around 11 or 12th. This year, he's between 13th and 15th.

Watson is the 2nd-highest paid QB in the league. His cap hits in years 3 and 4 are actually HIGHER than Mahomes'. He isn't even CLOSE to being worth that.

So as I said before, Houston is stuck with him.
This is relative though. Being “stuck” with Watson gives them a good chance assuming they fix the coaching and start making good personnel moves.

Technically any team that has a QB that isn’t Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers is stuck bc they likely won’t beat them unless they have much better team and coaching.
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htismaqe 02:24 PM 11-16-2020
Originally Posted by RunKC:
This is relative though. Being “stuck” with Watson gives them a good chance assuming they fix the coaching and start making good personnel moves.

Technically any team that has a QB that isn’t Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers is stuck bc they likely won’t beat them unless they have much better team and coaching.
A good chance at what? Even without Mahomes in the AFC, Watson just isn't a "championship" QB.

I don't get what people see in the guy, honestly, other than the athletic ability.
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