Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Veach should be number 1 in my book. I get that he took over a good situation, but look at our record in the playoffs since he took over. Look at the improvement in the defense in 1 offseason of cap hell.
No way in hell is Marty 1B. Reid has created separation there. Reid and Stram are the greatest coaches in franchise history...by a lot.
Kelce should be higher than 8. I’d have him ahead of Priest and Charles. Montana at 3 seems high too.
Veach #1? Why? Because he came into a great situation that allowed him to overpay for a few players and win a SB?
He's been good so far but one year as a GM doesn't make someone #1.. That's crazy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The fact that people still refuse to give Dorsey any credit for pulling a rabbit out of the hat, misleading EVERYONE and executing a damn good trade to get immediately ahead of 2 teams that badly wanted Mahomes remains bizarre as hell.
He made the obvious right choice in 2013 w/ Fisher. Is it his fault that draft was tragically awful? No, no it is not.
Ford, LDT and Fulton were very good picks in '14. We'll always have a bad taste in our mouths over how Ford's tenure ended, but FFS, look at what most of the teams around us did. Relative to his peers, the Ford pick was excellent.
Peters, Morse, Conley and Nelson is a very good first 4 picks of '15 and I'd imagine few did better.
'16 yielded Chris Jones, Demarcus Robinson and Tyreek Hill. But hey, that's only 2 guys that are considered top 5 in the sport at their positions - who cares?
'17 he executed the trade for Mahomes.
Seriously - what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I won't try to debate Dorsey vs. Carl because I think they both did outstanding jobs and won't loudly argue w/ ranking either ahead of the other. But saying "Dorsey sucked ass in KC" is just facially ridiculous. He was, at worst, good over his period in Kansas City. In his 5 years he drafted, what, 9 Pro Bowlers? And acknowledge it or not (you won't) he was instrumental in the acquisition of Kelce, Hill, Jones and yes, Mahomes - all of whom could easily end up with legitimate HoF cases by the time their careers are over.
I don't think that Dorsey made the most important picks that moved this franchise forward.
Fisher? You have to be kidding me. That's a Reid selection all day long, same with Kelce. It's been documented time and time again that Chris Ballard did all of the legwork on Marcus Peters.
Fulton and LDT are definitely Reid selections. His mother attended the same college as LDT in Canada! So basically ANY offensive lineman is an Andy selection, period, and there's no way you're going to convince me otherwise.
The Buffalo trade was NOT executed by Dorsey. For Fuck's Sake Dude, McDermott and the rest of the Bills coaching staff and front office are basically Reid's children! He brought them up, trained them and in McDermott's case, fired them, too. There's no way that trade goes down like it does without Andy Reid's relationship with those guys.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Carl Peterson was the GM for 20 drafts - Dorsey for 5. And you're honestly going to try to use a count of HoFers as your barometer? Especially when there's a solid possibility that Dorsey comes out ahead in 5 years of where Peterson was over 20.
The comparison was an apt comparison. Peterson's first five years drafting versus Dorsey's first five years of drafting.
In hindsight, Dorsey should never have been the hire. He and Reid obviously clashed on personnel, something that hasn't happened since Brett Veach has become the GM.
And Dorsey didn't help his reputation in Cleveland, either. Maybe he hit on Nick Chubb and the jury's still out on Mayfield (although those deliberations are certainly siding against him at this point) but I just don't believe he brought anything "special" to the table.
Without Reid, Dorsey would have never become an NFL GM. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
I don't think that Dorsey made the most important picks that moved this franchise forward.
Fisher? You have to be kidding me. That's a Reid selection all day long, same with Kelce. It's been documented time and time again that Chris Ballard did all of the legwork on Marcus Peters.
Fulton and LDT are definitely Reid selections. His mother attended the same college as LDT in Canada! So basically ANY offensive lineman is an Andy selection, period, and there's no way you're going to convince me otherwise.
The Buffalo trade was NOT executed by Dorsey. For ****'s Sake Dude, McDermott and the rest of the Bills coaching staff and front office are basically Reid's children! He brought them up, trained them an in McDermott's case, fired them, too. There's no way that trade goes down like it does without Andy Reid's relationship with those guys.
The comparison was an apt comparison. Peterson's first five years drafting versus Dorsey'd first five years of drafting.
In hindsight, Dorsey should never have been the hire. He and Reid obviously clashed on personnel, something that hasn't happened since Brett Veach has become the GM.
And Dorsey didn't help his reputation in Cleveland, either. Maybe he hit on Nick Chubb and the jury's still out on Mayfield (although those deliberations are certainly siding against him at this point) but I just don't believe he brought anything "special" to the table and without Reid, he'd have never been a GM.
I get what you are saying Dane but if someone is the GM they have final say on all picks. Dorsey could have vetoed any of Reids 'picks,' you are crazy to think Dorsey didn't have final say on everything including the Mahomes trade and pick.
Veach was a part of Dorseys team. Dorsey was the leader. Any good GM needs good scouts. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
I get what you are saying Dane but if someone is the GM they have final say on all picks.
That is not necessarily true. Each year, NFL teams search for new GM's and nearly every year, guys refuse to take jobs because the Head Coach has final say over the roster, not the GM.
I don't believe for a second that Dorsey had "Final Say" over anything, especially offensive lineman or Kelce or Mahomes or even Hunt for that matter.
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
Dorsey could have vetoed any of Reids 'picks,' you are crazy to think Dorsey didn't have final say on everything including the Mahomes trade and pick.
Also, if Dorsey was SO great (he wasn't) and if he had SO much to do with the drafting of Mahomes (he absolutely did not), why doesn't Andy Reid ever give him any credit whatsoever when it comes to Mahomes?
He constantly credits Brett Veach as well as Alex Smith. Hell, he credited Smith in his recent interview with Rich Eisen this week!
And if Dorsey was so vital and great, why did Clark Hunt unceremoniously fire him, especially if he was so integral to the Mahomes trade with Buffalo?
I know why: Because he wasn't integral to the trade, he made several fuck ups and Clark Hunt felt the team would be better off with Veach and Reid running the show.
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
That is not necessarily true. Each year, NFL teams search for new GM's and nearly every year, guys refuse to take jobs because the Head Coach has final say over the roster, not the GM.
I don't believe for a second that Dorsey had "Final Say" over anything, especially offensive lineman or Kelce or Mahomes or even Hunt for that matter.
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Also, if Dorsey was SO great (he wasn't) and if he had SO much to do with the drafting of Mahomes (he absolutely did not), why doesn't Andy Reid ever give him any credit whatsoever when it comes to Mahomes?
He constantly credits Brett Veach as well as Alex Smith. Hell, he credited Smith in his recent interview with Rich Eisen this week!
And if Dorsey was so vital and great, why did Clark Hunt unceremoniously fire him, especially if he was so integral to the Mahomes trade with Buffalo?
I know why: Because he wasn't integral to the trade, he made several **** ups and Clark Hunt felt the team would be better off with Veach and Reid running the show.
And Clark Hunt was right.
If i remember right, when Reid and Dorsey were hired, Clark set it up where they both reported directly to him and neither one was more powerful than the other.
Clark didnt want another all powerful football Czar position like Pioli had. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
Believe whatever you want. Maybe if you would take Reids dick out of your mouth you would see things for how they truly are.
And you can just go fuck yourself while jacking off to pictures of Alex Smith, you pathetic piece of shit [Reply]
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
If i remember right, when Reid and Dorsey were hired, Clark set it up where they both reported directly to him and neither one was more powerful than the other.
Clark didnt want another all powerful football Czar position like Pioli had.
I can't believe that anyone thinks that Andy Reid didn't have a massive amount of input, let alone, final say over the draft and roster. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Kman34:
Football was a lot different 50 years ago when Jack Steadman was running things... Lot less complicated...
And being a GM for one season when you have Mahomes, Reid, Kelce, Jones, Tyreek and others falling into your lap is a little different than the situations Carl Peterson and other Game found themselves in. [Reply]
