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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
PAChiefsGuy 08:20 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by Monticore:
Is that factoring in vaccines ?
All you have to do is Google CoronaVirus vs The Flu and you'll get all the answers you need. Here's a good article on it.

https://www.nola.com/news/coronaviru...1dd4b.amp.html
[Reply]
BossChief 08:23 AM 03-30-2020
This is very interesting.

Hamas and Dane are 2 of the most respected posters on the site and both don’t seem to give any validity to reports of certain drugs being highly effective in battling the covid19.
[Reply]
Titty Meat 08:27 AM 03-30-2020
So now were settling science with tweets and message board opinions? :-)
[Reply]
kgrund 08:27 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Well, normally we make evidence-based medical decisions upon the results of randomized clinical trials and not tweets about the claims of success from a single practitioner.
Whether you are a Sunshine Pumper, Debbie Downer, or somewhere in between on these treatments, I think most of us can agree that the verdict on many of these treatments will be decided long before the clinical papers are printed.
[Reply]
BleedingRed 08:29 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by kgrund:
Whether you are a Sunshine Pumper, Debbie Downer, or somewhere in between on these treatments, I think most of us can agree that the verdict on many of these treatments will be decided long before the clinical papers are printed.
Just like the CDC got in the way with testing, the FDA is getting in the way with treatment.

Ignore both in this instance and go around.
[Reply]
O.city 08:29 AM 03-30-2020
They’re starting mass serological testing in Germany to see who has had it and is immune now so that they can get out of the lock down

That’s smart
[Reply]
BleedingRed 08:30 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
So now were settling science with tweets and message board opinions? :-)
or accepting other countries findings because the FDA is dragging its feet like the CDC did with testing..... The evidence keeps building, but by all means wait for the FDA.
[Reply]
Gravedigger 08:31 AM 03-30-2020
It's promising if the drugs are doing good things, but scientific testing takes longer than that to get a better overall picture. If these people all relapse, keel over, or develop cancer from these treatments then we don't have much to celebrate now do we? Extreme possibilities I know but anything is possible.
[Reply]
BleedingRed 08:33 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by Gravedigger:
It's promising if the drugs are doing good things, but scientific testing takes longer than that to get a better overall picture. If these people all relapse, keel over, or develop cancer from these treatments then we don't have much to celebrate now do we? Extreme possibilities I know but anything is possible.
no developing cancer from a drug in use for 70 years is not possible......
[Reply]
O.city 08:33 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by BleedingRed:
or accepting other countries findings because the FDA is dragging its feet like the CDC did with testing..... The evidence keeps building, but by all means wait for the FDA.
Didn’t the other countries test have a high false positive or something?

Yeah, we need to do our own testing to make sure it’s safe and it works
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 08:34 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by BossChief:
This is very interesting.

Hamas and Dane are 2 of the most respected posters on the site and both don’t seem to give any validity to reports of certain drugs being highly effective in battling the covid19.
I wouldn't say that I don't give any validity to them; what I'm saying is that, as someone who was trained in the evaluation of evidence to make medical decisions, there is not sufficient evidence to state that HCQ+Azithromycin is a panacea.

It may well work. The mechanism of action (raising intracellular pH to reduce endocytosis of the virus) makes sense in a vacuum. However, and I've said this numerous times before--for every small molecule drug that is approved there are thousands--literally thousands--that fail. In vitro success does not mean in vivo success. The human body is a much different machine than even other mammals, and certainly test tubes.

I'll use an extreme example: they've known about something that costs pennies that can inactivate every known virus for decades. Sodium hypochlorite in water.

Well, why can't you use it: because pumping bleach into your veins will kill you.

Every drug is a poison. The trick is finding a poison that kills the pathogen before it begins harming (or kills) the host. You also need to make sure that it has appropriate absorption and distribution to get where you need to it go and that it is metabolized and eliminated in a manner that avoids toxicity.

People need to understand that sometimes the best answer to a question is, "I don't know." It's difficult to hear with so much information to be accessed, but the true answer right now is that we don't know. You can say that it will be effective or that it won't, but at this point, you're really just betting on sports futures, and that's not how medical decisions should be made.
[Reply]
F150 08:34 AM 03-30-2020
There is no money to be made advancing these drug treatments rapidly to registration.

If you are a University you desire complex multi level long term trials involving scads of observations...

On the other hand, the drugs have been proven safe for people to take so we don't really need data on if its toxic to people, and the side effects are well known.

What we don't know to a gnats ass of total accuracy is what does it do when taken by someone with this virus. And in truth that will be important to some researchers and will no doubt be studied for years.

In the meantime, it would seem logical and practical to move forward and use what information can be developed with a goal of full use if the product is working.

To require the usual battery of protocols and testing required for a new discovery compound is absurd. There will be so little profit in this stuff since its all generic, no one will pay for those trials anyway, and we damn sure don't need the feds shoveling more money into Universities to study things to death at high costs.
[Reply]
Donger 08:35 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
You guys really need to leave this to the professionals, because you're arguing about metrics that you don't understand and it is both harmful and incredibly arrogant.
Professionals like Dr. Vladimir Zelenko!
[Reply]
Titty Meat 08:35 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by BleedingRed:
or accepting other countries findings because the FDA is dragging its feet like the CDC did with testing..... The evidence keeps building, but by all means wait for the FDA.
Let the scientist and medical professionals do their thing. This kind of stuff is above about 99% of the folks on this board.
[Reply]
BleedingRed 08:38 AM 03-30-2020
Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
Let the scientist and medical professionals do their thing. This kind of stuff is above about 99% of the folks on this board.
thats the thing Medical Professionals are doing their thing. Where is the update from NY's trial?
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