Obviously this is going to be a key discussion this offseason. On The Athletic's podcast (Time's Ours), Nate Taylor said that he's heard that there are multiple teams out there who would give us a 1st round pick for Jones (assuming we tag and trade him), and possibly more than that.
So just to lay out a simplified version of the options:
Option 1:
Chris Jones (probably around $20m per year)
Option 2:
1st round draft pick (cheap for 4-5 years)
$20m worth of other players
For context on how much other players might cost based on recent free agents we've signed:
Clark - $21m
Mathieu - $14m
Hitchens - $9m
Schwartz - $8m
Okafor - $6m
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period.
Here is how I see it:
Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher.
Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior.
if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense.
The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded.
With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL.
That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented.
Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.
That’s one path. It isn’t the only path, IMO.
I’ll get into it either way and support it. Great players raise the game of the guys around them.
If the Chiefs keep Jones, they can find a lot of success stories like Emmanuel Ogbah - guys who fit the scheme and give them good production in 1x1 matchups.
They also can get away with a little less talent in the back seven. Again, scheme fits are important, but they can get by without a true lockdown corner of the front 4 is dominant.
Flip side, yeah, if they can move Jones for a 1st and 3rd this year, that’s great value for him. But is that deal out there? Hard to say. They’re saying the right things publicly to maximize their leverage with trading him, though. I’ve had fun playing around with drafts where KC has 4-5 picks in the top 100, too. They can infuse a lot of young talent and also set themselves up to have a big draft class again next year.
Both approaches can be right if executed properly.
I’d be less confident in spending big on Jones if Veach hadn’t shown such a nice eye for finding undervalued talent. Rankin, Ogbah, Ward, etc. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
I don't get the logic in this thread.
"CHIRS JONES IS A MUST SIGN! INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY!"
Would you trade him for the best interior OL in the league to stop interior pass rush on your Super Bowl MVP quarterback?
"STOPPING THE INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS MEANINGLESS!"
I mean, that’s a little hyperbolic.
The value of an elite pass rusher - which I think we all agree Jones is, and a unique one at that - is a lot higher than the value of an elite interior OL.
Nelson is a monster, but he’s still an interior guy. Guys like Jones are harder to find and offer more value over an “adequate” or “good” player when compared to a G. [Reply]
Protect Mahomes. Give him weapons. If those two things don't happen, KC is an average team. Keeping Jones makes it much more difficult to maximize our greatest strength.
I think the smart, safe decision is to tag and trade him. A late first and a future third would do it for me. [Reply]
Part of the 20 has to pay the salary of the first round pick. Depending on where, it could be 3 or 4 mil. So it’s not a huge deal but I think ogbah makes less than that so it isn’t immaterial.
Originally Posted by notorious:
Cycle him out and strengthen different parts of the defense with young, cheaper talent.
We need to get out of this thought-process of keeping expensive talent because the team will struggle without one guy.
The only guy this team can't lose is Mahomes. The rest are all moveable pieces.
I’ve been barking up this tree awhile. Jones has endeared himself to me, especially if he’s below Donald money. But on the whole this is where I am. And honestly I don’t think the DL can have Clark AND Jones.
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I'm not sure this is the argument you think it is. The 49ers ENTIRE STARTING DL has a total average salary of about what it would cost to keep Jones. So if you're asking me if I could trade Jones for the 49ers DL, the answer is yes in an instant. Otherwise, I'd take Buckner and $15m to spend on other players, yes.
I just think the piece that everyone always ignores in discussions like this is that the salary BUYS OTHER PLAYERS, so any discussion of what you would trade should also consider the difference in cap hit and what else we might be able to do with it.
Like I said, I’ve been barking up this tree awhile.
I’d rather have solid if unspectacular players at every position than a BAMF and schmucks.
If you have a part of your defense that is consistently exploitable, you’re fucked. Granted a fair percentage of coaching staffs are too stupid to take advantage but the ones that can will be there when it matters.
Also, RE: Spags Giants DLs that were chalk full of good dudes, IIRC it was one dude getting paid then rookie contracts. So there wasn’t a ton of money there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
slight qualm, Face.
It’s not a first + 20M or Jones.
Part of the 20 has to pay the salary of the first round pick. Depending on where, it could be 3 or 4 mil. So it’s not a huge deal but I think ogbah makes less than that so it isn’t immaterial.
I chose the scenario for simplicity (I'd also bet we could get more than a first for him, which kind of goes the other direction), but yeah, I'll concede that one. It's relatively minor, but not inconsequential. [Reply]
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
If the Cards offer up the 9th overall pick.....then sure. But I don’t see any team doing that. I think we might be able to pull a 1st rounder from the Dolphins but I’m not sure they’d give up the middle one.
no fucking way we are getting the 9th pick in the draft for Jones. ESPN “experts” were saying a 2nd rounder. [Reply]
Originally Posted by saphojunkie:
Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period.
Here is how I see it:
Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher.
Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior.
if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense.
The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded.
With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL.
That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented.
Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.
Winning more Super Bowls is #1 priority. Mahomes had a good year behind this OL. Some minor upgrades should be good enough. Especially as much as he rolls out of the pocket.
How many passes did Jones knock down which caused the end of a drive in the Super Bowl?
An elite player such as Chris Jones is much more important than an OL when you have an elite QB. [Reply]
Remember how pissed we were when King Carl traded Jared Allen because he didn’t want to pay him? Ended up getting Jamal Charles and Brandon Albert with the pics in the trade. Veach is way way better in making the right picks than King Carl. Just sayin. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
Remember how pissed we were when King Carl traded Jared Allen because he didn’t want to pay him? Ended up getting Jamal Charles and Brandon Albert with the pics in the trade. Veach is way way better in making the right picks than King Carl. Just sayin.
That's what people are saying. Jared Allen got a 1st and two 3rds. Khalil Mack got the Raiders a stupid fucking amount of draft picks. Frank Clark got a 1st and a 2nd.
ESPN thinks it's appropriate that Chris Jones only gets a 2nd?
Must have been "Bring your idiot babbling toddler to work" Day in Bristol, CT [Reply]
