Originally Posted by DanT:
They can be abused the way that a defender can abuse any other player on offense. That's the way the rules are and that is exactly how they should be. Receivers are just like anybody else on the offense, unless they have a play on the forward pass while it is in flight.
So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?
I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mosbonian:
So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?
I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him.
As I said, after the ball has become a forward pass, the DB can do to a receiver who is not able to get to the ball anything that the DB can do to any other offensive player. There are things that defenders can do to offensive players that can put those offensive players on the ground legally and there are things that can't be done. That's how the game has always been played, in terms of defense vs. offense. It's also true that DB and receivers will sometimes be unduly kind to one another and choose not to engage in what would be legal contact, but there is nothing outlawing that. If DBs made a point of taking out receivers when they could do it legally, they would protect themselves against hook-and-ladder plays and the like.
Kelce, a 6'5" 250 lb tight end, ended up on the ground, after getting locked up with a Lonnie Johnson, Jr., a 6'2" 213 lb DB. The initial contact happened within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, making it legal at that moment. There appears from the replay that there was also contact beyond five yards that might have been while Mahomes still had the ball and which would have thus, by the strict letter of the law, represented illegal contact, but that's the kind of thing that happens routinely in the NFL and often is not called. It's arguable that it should be called, as Mahomes didn't throw at Kelce and Kelce's engagement with that defender kept that defender occupied, seemingly at Kelce's discretion because there isn't really any fuckin' reason for a player as big as Kelce to let himself be manhandled by a smaller DB.
Personally, I don't want to watch football games where ticky-tack fouls get called. That's not football.
According to Mahomes comments after the game, Kelce got locked up while doing a designed "double move" that, had it been successful, would have put Kelce in the vicinity of the ball. In other words, Mahomes is claiming that Kelce was the intended target and that he threw the ball to where he did because he saw Kelce begin to execute the double move, https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nf...236092143.html
If that's true, then that clearly establishes that Mahomes was not "taking a shot" downfield because he saw a flag. It also invites the question, would any reasonable football fan want to have a pass like that be considered catchable by Kelce. I sure wouldn't. Kelce was nowhere near the football. I don't like when refs give teams yards they didn't actually earn. I would have liked it better had the refs called illegal contact, but I can see what they didn't and non-calls like that happen all of the time. That call is not why the Chiefs lost that game yesterday. [Reply]
Garcia Bronco 10-14-2019, 08:10 PM
This message has been deleted by Garcia Bronco.
Reason: Lol wtf
Originally Posted by Mosbonian:
So....if a DB wants to trip, grab, tackle or otherwise physically harass a receiver to whom the ball is not being thrown there is no penalty?
I know what I would be telling my players.....once the ball is in the air and you see it isn't coming to the guy you are covering, knock the crap out of him.
Lol...that DB didn't knock the crap out of Kelce. His coach is telling him not to get locked up like that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
Lol...that DB didn't knock the crap out of Kelce. His coach is telling him not to get locked up like that.
I know reading comprehension isn't required for Broncos fans so I will help you here.
I never said Kelce got the crap knocked out of him....although he was contacted illegally.
What I am saying is that if a receiver is not the intended target and can legally be abused I know what I am telling my DB's. Once the ball is in the air and you can tell your man is not the intended target....do whatever you want to him legally which evidently includes tackling or knocking down your guy. [Reply]
This is video of the official listening extra close to someone talking to him in his ear, and then the call being reversed to a Mahomes interception. pic.twitter.com/2lvsCQYQAX
It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty fucking good. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty ****ing good.
The defender literally takes his hand & pushes down on the back of Kelsey's helmet & pushes him down. The only legitimate questions are did the contact take place within the 5 yard zone in which db's are allowed to "chuck" the recievers, or was the ball already in the air when contact was made.
Originally Posted by ScareCrowe:
The defender literally takes his hand & pushes down on the back of Kelsey's helmet & pushes him down. The only legitimate questions are did the contact take place within the 5 yard zone in which db's are allowed to "chuck" the recievers, or was the ball already in the air when contact was made.
That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :-)
I guarantee he knows the NFL rulebook better than your dumb ass, so I put more stock in what Dungy says over some stupid Broncos Homer trolling on a Chiefs mb. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :-)
No kidding, I think the point is that the call should have been holding. Which of course is called regardless of where the ball is thrown because holding takes place before the ball is thrown.
And if Kelcey is already going down on his own it's stupid for the defender to place his hand on his head as it makes it look like he is pushing him down. (mainly because that's exactly what he was doing) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
That push down is not the reason Kelce is falling. His ass was already going down from losing his own balance. Further, the call was not defensive holding. It was PI...The ball was un-catchable for any Chiefs receiver. There is no PI. There is no holding. It's over. Move on. :-)
Exactly!
Kelce got handled on that play. He needs to figure out how to avoid getting locked up off the line of scrimmage. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
It wasn't even holding since Kelsey fell down on his own. WTF are you guys complaining about? Nothing should have been called. Mahones throw his first INT in week 6. You guys are doing pretty ****ing good.
Are you completely blind, or just a stupid Bronco fan?
Even Tony Dungy says it's a penalty - watch the video here, where the defender drags Kelce to the ground BEFORE the pass is thrown :
