Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi:
Just put Wainwright out to pasture. This is sad.
I love Waino. The curveball to Beltran will forever live in Cardinals lore. He was on the mound when l got to see my team win a WS. But..... that was 2006. Last time I checked a calender it was 2018. No one cheats Father Time. It’s coming for us all.
Waino should volunteer to go to the bullpen for the good of the team. The competitor may still exist inside of him but the physical tools don’t. He’s done.
Again, I love Waino but he should not start another game for the MLB Cardinals, ever. Flaherty should take his spot in the rotation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Frazod:
Well, we know who he learned it from. Remember the last days of McGwire when he was an absolute, guaranteed out and LaRussa wouldn't bench him? :-)
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
now we need Fowler and Carp to get on the DL somehow, someway and get themselves back on track.
You can’t be sitting Bader and Gyrko who are both hot now for players hitting <.160.
If I had the choice of one of them returning to form it would be Fowler. We have 3 more years we are tied to him after this one. Carpenter we are on the hook for next year with a club option after that one. Ideally both would figure it out, but neither show signs right now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by VAChief:
If I had the choice of one of them returning to form it would be Fowler. We have 3 more years we are tied to him after this one. Carpenter we are on the hook for next year with a club option after that one. Ideally both would figure it out, but neither show signs right now.
Carp needs to use the inside out swing and take some balls to left field. After getting some of those free hits they are giving him, maybe they will pull back the extreme shift he hits into every AB.
Fowler needs to quit swinging at the curve, slider inside and low, off the plate. He cant do anything with that pitch even if he makes contact. [Reply]
Originally Posted by VAChief:
Yes, that was brutal to watch as well.
That was a weird year, though.
Remember, McGwire was hurt to start the year and in July he was doing standard McGwire stuff - lots of HRs and walks. He looked like he was rounding into shape and had found a way to play with the foot as a new normal. McGwire had come up huge when David Wells broke Drew's hand and with Drew coming back at the beginning of August and a need for pitching, the Lankford/Williams trade got made. And with the available information, that deal made all the sense in the world (and Williams was huge for us).
LaRussa had benched McGwire in 2000 when he had Clark. In September and the post-season, McGwire was a pinch hitter because Clark was a better option.
But in August and September of 2001 - who was your better option? Bonilla, Robinson and Paquette were your only answers, right? Pujols had essentially moved full-time to the OF after Polanco had seized 3b.
I mean I guess there's an argument in favor of those guys. Pujols could've gone to 1b and Robinson could've taken over in LF. Your defense is improve that way (and LaRussa, to his credit, did a fair amount of late-inning defensive substitutions to that effect). Paquette would've been over-exposed in a heartbeat, IMO (he had fewer than 300 major league ABs after that season before being out of baseball altogether). Bonilla just sucked.
The major difference is that the 2001 squad didn't have the depth that this one has. It didn't have a clearly better plan B. And with LaRussa/McGwire you can point to an instance the year prior of him being willing to bench Mac when he thought he had a viable alternative. You can't do that with Matheny.
I guess Matheny has a similar argument on his IF right now. I personally would let Wong fight through it and find his form while taking the defensive improvement but the argument is similar to what could've been made for McGwire over Kerry Robinson. And as for Fowler, Matheny can point to Dexter's slow start last year as justification for letting him find his swing this year. Fowler really was critically important to our offense last season when he got it going.
I do think a DL stint for Fowler and Carpenter should be in order, though. I just can't agree with "keep doing what you're doing" with these guys. They're fighting it something awful and if you can't get a change in approach at the plate, perhaps a DL stint gets them out of their own heads. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
That was a weird year, though.
Remember, McGwire was hurt to start the year and in July he was doing standard McGwire stuff - lots of HRs and walks. He looked like he was rounding into shape and had found a way to play with the foot as a new normal. McGwire had come up huge when David Wells broke Drew's hand and with Drew coming back at the beginning of August and a need for pitching, the Lankford/Williams trade got made. And with the available information, that deal made all the sense in the world (and Williams was huge for us).
LaRussa had benched McGwire in 2000 when he had Clark. In September and the post-season, McGwire was a pinch hitter because Clark was a better option.
But in August and September of 2001 - who was your better option? Bonilla, Robinson and Paquette were your only answers, right? Pujols had essentially moved full-time to the OF after Polanco had seized 3b.
I mean I guess there's an argument in favor of those guys. Pujols could've gone to 1b and Robinson could've taken over in LF. Your defense is improve that way (and LaRussa, to his credit, did a fair amount of late-inning defensive substitutions to that effect). Paquette would've been over-exposed in a heartbeat, IMO (he had fewer than 300 major league ABs after that season before being out of baseball altogether). Bonilla just sucked.
The major difference is that the 2001 squad didn't have the depth that this one has. It didn't have a clearly better plan B. And with LaRussa/McGwire you can point to an instance the year prior of him being willing to bench Mac when he thought he had a viable alternative. You can't do that with Matheny.
I guess Matheny has a similar argument on his IF right now. I personally would let Wong fight through it and find his form while taking the defensive improvement but the argument is similar to what could've been made for McGwire over Kerry Robinson. And as for Fowler, Matheny can point to Dexter's slow start last year as justification for letting him find his swing this year. Fowler really was critically important to our offense last season when he got it going.
I do think a DL stint for Fowler and Carpenter should be in order, though. I just can't agree with "keep doing what you're doing" with these guys. They're fighting it something awful and if you can't get a change in approach at the plate, perhaps a DL stint gets them out of their own heads.
players like Waino and McGuire have earned the right to end their careers however they want. But, I’d wish they’d see how they have deteriorated. Waino is going to be a Cardinal legend. Deserving of the red jacket. Just finish out this year with some class. If you get better, volunteer to go to the pen. Work clean up duty until proving your the Waino of old so you don’t hurt the team. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
He is top 5 in wins and #6 in WAR in STL pitching history.
He is also top 5 in SO per 9 innings if you can believe that.
The young Waino was nasty.
curveball to Beltran (who had killed us in the playoffs for years)with bases loaded that sent us to the first WS in 25 years.
On the mound deservedly when we won the 2006 World Series. Without him stepping up when Izzy flamed our, there is no WS championship that year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Well, I mean that's gonna happen just with the amount of time he's pitched in STL.
Don't get me wrong, he's been a good Cardinal. Had the great moments as a closer in 06.
But other than that, I don't exactly remember him being a playoff monster or whatever.
Maybe the last 4 or 5 years have me off kilter.
If you look at that list he is top 10 in almost every stat and when you are talking SO/per 9 etc...that's not a longevity stat.
Actually as average as he has been for years it hurts his overall stats in some ways. Pretty impressive he is still in the top 10 on many of those lists.
Chris Carpenter is on many of those lists too even with all the injuries. Miss that guy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief: curveball to Beltran (who had killed us in the playoffs for years)with bases loaded that sent us to the first WS in 25 years.
On the mound deservedly when we won the 2006 World Series. Without him stepping up when Izzy flamed our, there is no WS championship that year.
I remember that like it was yesterday.
Also on the longevity thing, people forget how good you have to be for how long just to stay with a single team this long as a starting pitcher. [Reply]
