Post here. Pertinent free agent signings can still have their own thread. Anyone who replies with a Q, because something is buried in this thread should blah blah AIDS tree. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I might be biased, but I'd rather have Jones than Mack, Clark, or Buckner. I think a lot of people would, which is why I can perfectly understand how Jones thinks he can achieve Donald money
Buckner is the only one I’d take Jones over I think, assuming all are at full health and the same age. [Reply]
Note: I'm not faulting these dudes in any way whatsoever.
But immediately after the Super Bowl, we heard those whispers and weird coded language coming from players like Clark and Watkins about how they understood that keeping great players around you might mean making some sacrifices of your own. They also seemed to be quite open to that idea.
Again, we don't know the specifics of these negotiations at all, but it seems to me that a lot of those statements came while still in a euphoria of winning the Super Bowl. I don't think either of them are as open to the concept as perhaps they once were. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BossChief:
I completely disagree.
Guys like Jones help make the guys around him better directly and indirectly.
Opposing offenses are forced to double team Jones and still lose the battle. That means other players only have to beat a single block to eat. It also forces the QB to need to move to avoid pressure (often immediate pressure) and that makes the job of the DEs easier. He also helps the CBs because the QB is often throwing off balance and rushed.
The truth is, Unicorns like CJ make good players out of average players around them through their impact.
Did he though? Did he in 2018? When has he, except when Clark was healthy and lining up a spot down?
Jones is a really great pass rusher. Absolutely disruptive. Average-ish run defender. That's not a knock, it's hard to be elite at anything in the NFL.
He's really, really good.
If you tie up half of your cap in 5 players, you cannot field a complete enough team to win multiple super bowls. You just can't.
Look at how the Patriots managed 9 trips and 6 wins in 20 years.
They were absolutely brutal about who got paid and who walked.
You can't let your heart rule here. You can't pay everyone you'd like to.
You've got a star in Clark and good young talent on the d-line even without Jones. If you can get multiple picks and save cap money to spend on gaping holes like linebacker and interior O-line you can actually field a more solid team overall, even though you're giving up some production in one spot.
I'm kind of done arguing; people either get the overall team concept or don't. I understand, letting Jones go sucks emotionally. But I think we'll be better off OVERALL if we do so and fill holes wisely.
The only true UNICORN that we must protect here is Patrick Mahomes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BossChief:
I completely disagree.
Guys like Jones help make the guys around him better directly and indirectly.
Opposing offenses are forced to double team Jones and still lose the battle. That means other players only have to beat a single block to eat. It also forces the QB to need to move to avoid pressure (often immediate pressure) and that makes the job of the DEs easier. He also helps the CBs because the QB is often throwing off balance and rushed.
The truth is, Unicorns like CJ make good players out of average players around them through their impact.
You’re right that he makes others better, but in a cap league, you can only have so many of those guys before it’s too much for the rest of your roster to handle. We’ve already got Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Schwartz, Clark, and Mathieu who all fall under that elite category IMO. ALL are making big bucks or soon to be.
Add another one in Jones and these guys are taking up so much of your cap that you cannot afford to lose any of them to an injury and still be a true contender because the rest of your players are vet minimum players pretty much. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
you ARE biased. Definitely.
You're a fan, of course you are. So am I.
I love Jonesy. I love that smile, and that swagger.
But reality is reality.
You re-up Jonesy and you've got $40 plus in half of your defensive line. Hill getting a ton. Badger. Mahomes about to get paid.
You're going to have half of your available cap in 5 guys.
You just can't do that and field a championship roster.
That’s NOT how it works. We’re going to have to manage the cap, sure, but it’s not like every year would have huge cap hits.
The nice thing about the 3 year deal suggestion is it gives KC the ability to have a low first year cap hit, one year with an AAV cap hit then the option to drop the cap hit again by signing a new extension after the second year to finish his career in KC if he’s still being dominant. It protects the teams cap long term and it gives CJ another chance at a big payday in a couple years.
Same as Mathieu. His deal is for 3 years for the same reason.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
That’s NOT how it works. We’re going to have to manage the cap, sure, but it’s not like every year would have huge cap hits.
The nice thing about the 3 year deal suggestion is it gives KC the ability to have a low first year cap hit, one year with an AAV cap hit then the option to drop the cap hit again by signing a new extension after the second year to finish his career in KC if he’s still being dominant. It protects the teams cap long term and it gives CJ another chance at a big payday in a couple years.
Same as Mathieu. His deal is for 3 years for the same reason.
So was Watkins.
well, yeah, except that a 3 year deal with a low first year cap hit means that his cap hit accelerates exactly when Mahomes' will start to. So that's a no-go.
Mathieu's deal was 3 years from last year. Watkins is now untenable as is. He's going to be cut, traded, or re-worked.
You can move stuff around a little, but the reality is you'll have $40 million per year plus in cap hits in HALF of your defensive line.
Now, maybe Veach has a way to make it work. I trust that motherfucker. He got it done, and sometimes I didn't understand what the hell he was doing, but he's proven himself.
I doubt that's how it goes down. I think the best thing for the future health of the team is to trade Jones for a 1st and probably a 3rd and sign quality free agents to fill holes at linebacker, offensive line, and corner.
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
Jones isn’t taking a 3 year deal.
Make it like the Watkins contract. Watkins contract is 3 years but in reality it’s a 2 year deal. Give Jones a 5 year deal when in reality it is a 3 year deal. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
You’re right that he makes others better, but in a cap league, you can only have so many of those guys before it’s too much for the rest of your roster to handle. We’ve already got Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Schwartz, Clark, and Mathieu who all fall under that elite category IMO. ALL are making big bucks or soon to be.
Add another one in Jones and these guys are taking up so much of your cap that you cannot afford to lose any of them to an injury and still be a true contender because the rest of your players are vet minimum players pretty much.
Deals signed this offseason are going to end up being a huge steal, going forward.
If Jones signs a 3yr deal for 63m, his next deal has a chance to be close to 3 years for 100m. The cap is going to go up quickly the next few years. It will be double it’s current amount inside of 10 years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I doubt that's how it goes down. I think the best thing for the future health of the team is to trade Jones for a 1st and probably a 3rd and sign quality free agents to fill holes at linebacker, offensive line, and corner.
I doubt that's how it goes down. I think the best thing for the future health of the team is to trade Jones for a 1st and probably a 3rd and sign quality free agents to fill holes at linebacker, offensive line, and corner.