More trade news: The #Chiefs are deep in talks with the #49ers on a trade for star pass-rusher Dee Ford, sources say. Things have escalated and this could get done by the end of the night. Ford needs to work out a new contract with SF, which is a big piece of this.
Dorsey came into this job as a first-time GM. A rookie. Think about that for a second, okay? No prior GM experience. For anybody. Ever.
Now, let's ask ourselves; who do we think was behind the fundamental decisions made prior to and during that 2013 season? We had Wally (who had run personnel in Philly) and we had Ballard (who was a key front-office guy in Chicago for a decade or more). Yet, I'm supposed to give Dorsey all the credit and shame those who don't?
Look at the defensive roster that year. I mean, damn. Great players everywhere ... and in their prime. We brought in a couple of offensive guys (including AS11) and "voila!" wins! Playoffs! Hooda thunk it?
Let's just temper our Dorsey enthusiasm with a tad of objectivity. That's all I'm saying, really.
Look at the defensive roster that year. I mean, damn. Great players everywhere ... and in their prime. We brought in a couple of offensive guys (including AS11) and "voila!" wins! Playoffs! Hooda thunk it?
FAX
So great defensive players in their prime...that apparently Dorsey made the mistake of re-signing? Mmm ok.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Bullshit hindsight false narrative.
Berry was coming off a fantastic season and voted to yet ANOTHER All-Pro team and looked every bit like his old self.
Houston had just come off a 22 sack season.
Now, what do players like that get in the open market?
We're talking about two players at the height of their positions at the time.
Meanwhile, we're over here celebrating Tyrann Mathieu getting paid MORE than Berry, in a market that was flooded with safeties.
We're celebrating that because we gave a big contract out to bring in a player who will upgrade a position, instead of giving them out to keep aging players in place which is the Chiefsy thing to do. This makes us better, instead of just treading water. [Reply]
Dorsey came into this job as a first-time GM. A rookie. Think about that for a second, okay? No prior GM experience. For anybody. Ever.
Now, let's ask ourselves; who do we think was behind the fundamental decisions made prior to and during that 2013 season? We had Wally (who had run personnel in Philly) and we had Ballard (who was a key front-office guy in Chicago for a decade or more). Yet, I'm supposed to give Dorsey all the credit and shame those who don't?
Look at the defensive roster that year. I mean, damn. Great players everywhere ... and in their prime. We brought in a couple of offensive guys (including AS11) and "voila!" wins! Playoffs! Hooda thunk it?
Let's just temper our Dorsey enthusiasm with a tad of objectivity. That's all I'm saying, really.
FAX
But no great players approaching their primes because of how poor a job Pioli did building roster depth.
So Dorsey had little in the way of long-term assets to work with yet he found a BUNCH of them in his 5 years. He turned the team over in far better shape than the one he got. He inherited a roster with Hali, DJ, Poe and Houston on defense and dick on offense. He turned over a roster with Houston, Ford, Jones, Peters and an outstanding ascending offense.
Unless you're just gonna hand-waive everything and say it was Reid's doing, I don't see how you can say he didn't do a damn good job with the Chiefs in over his tenure. [Reply]
This place LOVED Dorsey...until he was fired. Then all of a sudden he couldn't draft defense and sucked at contracts.
He was handed a defense with DJ, Houston, Poe, Berry and Tamba at their peak and he turned it to utter shit.
As soon as he was let go, his “best draft pick” on defense turned into a complete shit head that was so terrible that Andy Reid, one of the best players coaches, couldn’t even handle him. Remember Dorsey saying “He’s a great kid. His character is fine.” :-)
His contracts started to REALLY show how stupid they were when and around the time he got fired. Maclin, Houston, Berry. Fuck me man. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
That's completely wrong. He's always flashed the ability. The only difference between last season and season's prior is that he stayed healthy.
Otherwise, he was the same damn player he's always been.
Only the CP hive mind that thinks everyone sucks thought otherwise.
I can't speak for the hive mind, but of course, he's shown flashes.
That's been the part of his career that's been so "dang flustrating" (Herm voice).
I don't really understand your point. I mean, that is the issue, right? Staying on the field and out of the tub? Being consistent? Dependable? Isn't that how NFL careers are made?
Originally Posted by Eleazar:
It did take Ford 5 seasons to become an impact player, if he truly is one now and last year wasn't an aberration :-)
No it didn't.
And the general rule is that it take 3 seasons before front 7 guys truly hit their stride. At least one season for linemen to get their "NFL strength".
With that said, we're 2-3 seasons away from this defense being anything remotely considered good.
Assuming of course some big moves aren't in the pipeline. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
He never tried.
5 years he used 2 4ths and 2 5ths on ILBs.
Nico Johnson, Ramik Wilson, DJ Alexander and Ukeme Eligwe.
Shit fellas, Wilson played 16 games and started 4 last season. Eligwe and Alexander were ST flyer candidates and DJ hit in a big way. Nico Johnson was a bust at the top of the 4th; a top 100 pick you'd like to have seen more out of for sure. Gerald Hodges was available and would've obviously been a better pick.
But again - 5 years and 1 real swing and miss at the position? That's not bad. Especially when said swing was a 3rd day pick.
What y'all are calling an aptitude issue is more of a priority matter. He just didn't prioritize some of this stuff as much as you'd like. And I can't say that I blame him - he was trying to rebuild an offense that Pioli had let fall to complete shit and I'd say he did a pretty damn nice job in that regard.
But there are only so many fingers to plug the damn here and there were a LOT of holes on that roster. With the complete lack of roster depth and advancing age of some of they key pieces he inherited, he did a pretty damn stellar job.
Wilson played for the Rams last year. Do you mean he started 4 for them (which I don't actually know, and I'm too lazy to look up).
And I'm not here to shit on Dorsey, but I'm sort of being placed in that position by just trying to be dispassionate about the merits of him and Veach as GMs.
Dorsey either drafted or went dumpster diving and found good players at all kinds of positions. Abdullah and Parker in the secondary. Howard and Nunez-Roches at DL. Fulton and LDT. Tyreek Hill was a 5th rounder. Pretty good RBs all around.
All except for LB. Outside and inside, for that matter. Josh Mauga was about as good as it got. There was hardly anybody he brought in who could sniff past "Go play special teams then sit your ass down on the bench and pray that Derrick Johnson doesn't get hurt".
Yeah, he'll one day draft or find a good starting LB on his own, I'm sure. It might be some time before he's asked to prove that. Schobert and Kirksey are pretty good players. But that's kind of the position he was in with the Chiefs for 5 years, too. Is he going to choose to nibble around the edges and hope he gets lucky? I'm just saying that he had a pretty damn good luck streak going for the other positions on the team, and it's weird that he couldn't capitalize the same way when it comes to LB. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But no great players approaching their primes because of how poor a job Pioli did building roster depth.
So Dorsey had little in the way of long-term assets to work with yet he found a BUNCH of them in his 5 years. He turned the team over in far better shape than the one he got.
Unless you're just gonna hand-waive everything and say it was Reid's doing, I don't see how you can say he didn't do a damn good job with the Chiefs in over his tenure.
You absolutely CAN say he did a damn good job because HE DID.
But to sit here and act like he was the best GM in the NFL? Come on, man. He wasn't freaking perfect.
This whole Dorsey stuff caught fire again because he's been so active in free agency and people are antsy. It's typical knee jerk reactionary stuff that happens on CP at this time EVERY YEAR.
Everything the Chiefs do is wrong, everybody else is doing it right, and it's worse now because one of the guys making all the splash is a former Chiefs GM.
That's all it is. Saying the Chiefs are in an arms race with the Browns? The Browns are now an AFC favorite? :-)
Bill Belichik is sitting in his office smiling like Mr. Burns. [Reply]
Originally Posted by FAX:
I can't speak for the hive mind, but of course, he's shown flashes.
That's been the part of his career that's been so "dang flustrating" (Herm voice).
I don't really understand your point. I mean, that is the issue, right? Staying on the field and out of the tub? Being consistent? Dependable? Isn't that how NFL careers are made?
FAX
You said, "He suddenly comes out and plays like he could".
You were implying that he only played hard for a contract year.
I answered that assertion appropriately. Now you're moving the goal posts to his health, which is not something i've ever argued with anyone about. His health IS the concern.
But you weren't speaking on his health. You were speaking on his desire and alleged improved effort, which is bullshit. He was the same guy he's been for the past 3 seasons. [Reply]
