Oh, OK.

Well that would be a massive waste of time.
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What was it like interviewing all those black people firsthand to really get the truth? I bet you’ve got some great stories. Please share.
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There are a lot of ways to look at the numbers. I'm just not understanding the narrative. Why should anyone be surprised that trained police officers are more likely to get shot than panicked untrained suspects? And why wouldn't we expct more white people to get arrested given that they're a much higher % o of the population?

What number is considered reliable for likelihood of black men to get killed?
- First of all lethal force is undercounted. One study found that law enforcement undercounts lethal deaths by half (hello, data transparency)
- Secondly, the 18.5 number flagged by the left is riddled with error. Some studies point to a big difference, some point to none. For LETHAL use of force.

But lethal force is not the only issue. Recent attention to de-escalation & not shooting potentially may have reduced lethal use of force but non-lethal force is arguably worse than ever and that number is substantially higher for minorities. Even 21% higher for black people who are complying to arrest. I mean, in this case it acted like chokeholds were no big deal.

I'm not going to go there when it comes to anything more than racial profiling. But let's not overthink this. Even the biggest anti-protestor would not want to switch shoes with a black man for the same police encounter.
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I certainly hope not. Lots of local govts will experiment with different things. Some will make mistakes, some will fail. But we will hopefully also see big ideas that do really well. That's a welcome sight. Not this national resistance to changing even an inch of what hasn't been working. Minneapolis may be a guinnea pig if they rushed this decision. But Camden, NJ "disbanded" their police and so far the results have looked pretty positive.
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Have anything relevant to say?
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I’ve seen some really bad takes in this but this is another level.

We don’t have a policing problem in the USA, we have a parenting problem.

— Tomi Lahren (@TomiLahren) June 8, 2020

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Minnesota is fixing to have a problem, if they actually disband the police departments. People will be leaving that state in droves. Criminals will take over. The property values will tank along with the states economy therein taking the schools down another notch. It will just be a complete downward spiral.
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It depends. Camden is an intriguing example of how it could work. But Camden disbanded their police with the intent to hire officers back in a new capacity. Not sure if that's Minneapolis' end game. It also remains to be seen if this public safety approach works everywhere or if it's just a case by case basis (even Camden is wait and see). Its also not as if Camden is revolutionary as this is how a lot of other countries handle policing. My sense is the city council is looking at this from an extreme so will be interesting to see if they moderate the proposal.
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I wasn't going to post but I feel obligated to based on the way this is trending. Everyone pump the brakes on Camden, NJ. Camden is not the shining beacon some people apparently think it is based on numbers you see on the internet. Yes, they disbanded their municipal police department and started a new county-wide department. Yes, their crime statistics are down since they did that. The violent crime rate is still 4x the national average, an even bigger contrast with the rest of NJ, which has a violent crime rate almost half of the national average.

Much of Camden isn't safe to walk in the daytime. Case in point, the Camden aquarium (which is really amazing btw.) The most direct route from the highway to the aquarium cuts through Camden. The police will physically stop you and reroute you in a looping path that skirts the city. There are parts of Camden that the cops don't even patrol. During the COVID lockdown, due to reduced police presence overall, the open air drug markets are up and running.

I'm not saying they haven't made progress. There are certain streets and areas that are better than they were 10-15 years ago. But Camden's original police force was practically something out of a movie. They were insanely corrupt and inept.

I'm not taking a stance on the overall concept, but I think people have a false sense of what Camden looks like. I get it, you see some crime stats, read a few news articles, check out a wiki page and you feel like you've got a good idea.
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Most of NJ is a giant shit hole. Compared to any other comparable state.

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Police reform isn't a cure all nor is it easy. Even if the streets arent completely safe most seem to think the model is working much better than the last (I have been there several times). It's cheaper, much better community police relationship, and yes it is safer. Cities shouldnt look at as THE solution, rather use it as a case study for where they might consider reform. The main point in bringing up Camden is that disbanding police does not necessarily mean anarchy.
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This is false. I'm not really sure what metric you're using, or if you've ever even been there. I can't stand Murphy or most of the insane policies here and I plan to move eventually. But most of the state is really nice.

I am in agreement that you can use it as a case study, but I see people doing a lot more than that. I was shocked to hear about Camden as much as I have in the last few days. You yourself said it's proof that disbanding the police force does not mean anarchy. That's a really, really low bar. The last police force was damn near a caricature. Replacing the cops with cardboard cutouts would have been an improvement and dropped the crime rate by virtue of removing an extremely corrupt department. I don't think the average city that's looking for a case study is anywhere near where Camden is, or used to be.

The point of my original post was to provide some context. Camden is definitely one of these cases where people read about it and it sounds good. Camden's problems were so extreme that from a standpoint of crime statistics you may not get what you're after. Another city with much lower crime might actually experience an increase because they didn't start on the level of Camden.

You can take some things that they did and say, hey that's a good idea. They started requiring their officers to walk the neighborhoods they were patrolling. Though as an aside, why aren't police departments doing that now anyway? But the crime stats are not where you want to hang your hat, that's my main point.
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It has been almost 20 years since I was in NJ. Camden, Trenton, Newark all suck and are crime ridden. The beaches are worse, nastier darker than others along the eastern seaboard.
I have been in 46 states as I traveled for over a decade doing telecommunications. I spent a lot of time on NY and stayed in NJ because of the prices of motels in NYC.

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interesting numbers coming from Camden on how disbanding and reorganizing it's police force has shown good results.

it was an interesting read nonetheless on it
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...-of-the-people
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I’d still hit it.

Would require a ball gag, however.
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