Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin:
Interesting argument.
Even beyond the fact that these are team accomplishments, it doesn't make sense to penalize somebody for making Finals, no. Your argument suggests that it would have been better for LeBron's legacy to do what Jordan did repeatedly and lose in the 1st round rather than having yet another 40 point triple double in game 7 last week.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Even beyond the fact that these are team accomplishments, it doesn't make sense to penalize somebody for making Finals, no. Your argument suggests that it would have been better for LeBron's legacy to do what Jordan did repeatedly and lose in the 1st round rather than having yet another 40 point triple double in game 7 last week.
It makes no sense.
Strawman.
No, if he did that for much of his career the argument would just be even weaker. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
You’re so incredibly biased it is ridiculous. I completely disagree with any person that thinks Lebron is the GOAT, but if they can at least acknowledge it’s in no way unanimous at this point of his career, I can somewhat respect their opinion.
Top 10 all time in career Wins Over Replacement Player (since 1973)
I don't get how anybody could look at these numbers (especially when he's showing no signs of slowing down) and not come to any other conclusion at this point. He's shattering records. There isn't even a debate to be had anymore and there certainly won't be by the time his career ends. It just consists of MJ backers repeatedly shouting "6-0" and "NBA Finals MVPs!!1!" as if that means anything at all. [Reply]
No, if he did that for much of his career the argument would just be even weaker.
How is that a strawman? If "6-0" is supposed to be some kind of legitimate argument here, it means following that same logic, LeBron would have been better off losing last week to a shitty Pacers team than in 3 weeks to the greatest team ever assembled.
Nobody in their right mind would ever say such a thing. [Reply]
This fucking guy wants to completely ignore Finals performances and championships, but pump his chest out about wins in an abysmal conference with two great teams and his own “Pippen’s” (Wade/Kyrie) and another All-Star (Bosh/Love).
You want to say that those are “team accomplishments”, yet you’re quick to give Lebron credit for taking down a 70 win team when his Pippen is the one that hit the big shot to do so, not him.
It’s amazig how you only call out a “team accomplishment” argument when it doesn’t fit your narrative. [Reply]
I don't get how anybody could look at these numbers (especially when he's showing no signs of slowing down) and not come to any other conclusion at this point. He's shattering records. There isn't even a debate to be had anymore and there certainly won't be by the time his career ends. It just consists of MJ backers repeatedly shouting "6-0" and "NBA Finals MVPs!!1!" as if that means anything at all.
Well, being that winning is the ultimate goal in competitive sports and having a said individual lead his team to the opportunity for the Ultimate Prize in basketball 6 different times, win every single time, AND garner all 6 of the MVP’s for those said appearances, I would say that is rather significant to the argument.
But you’re right, it doesn’t mean anything at all . . . . . . :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
This ****ing guy wants to completely ignore Finals performances and championships, but pump his chest out about wins in an abysmal conference with two great teams and his own “Pippen’s” (Wade/Kyrie) and another All-Star (Bosh/Love).
Ignore Finals performances? Of course not, LeBron has been incredible in those games as well. I'm just pointing out that the entire "6-0" argument is nonsensical because it suggests that Jordan was better for losing in the 1st round of the playoffs rather than later (and that LeBron would have been better off losing to mediocre teams like the Pacers rather than to the GOAT team in the Warriors).
That's the illogical nature of that argument. It penalizes epic performances such as this series b/c now LeBron could lose in the Finals.
Originally Posted by :
You want to say that those are “team accomplishments”, yet you’re quick to give Lebron credit for taking down a 70 win team when his Pippen is the one that hit the big shot to do so, not him.
LeBron's game 5-7s (41/16/7/3/3, 41/8/11/3/4, 27/11/11/3/2) in that particular series were the greatest three games ever played in succession considering his numbers and what was at stake. And while Kyrie Irving may have hit a big shot, he's no Scottie Pippen. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin:
But you’re right, it doesn’t mean anything at all . . . . . . :-)
It doesn't if you are actually thinking about what you're arguing. Using your logic, it would have been better for LeBron to lose early as Jordan did and go 3-0 in NBA Finals rather than go 3-5 and lose to the Warriors. It makes no sense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
How is that a strawman? If "6-0" is supposed to be some kind of legitimate argument here, it means following that same logic, LeBron would have been better off losing last week to a shitty Pacers team than in 3 weeks to the greatest team ever assembled.
Nobody in their right mind would ever say such a thing.
Are you ****ing retarded?
It’s a strawman because like I just said losing consistently in the 1st round would only make he argument weaker. Nobody is saying he was better off losing last week. We’re simply pointing out his Finals losses/performances because that’s when he’s actually had legitimate championship level competition in the playoffs over the last several years. Excuse us for not being impressed with an awful coference for almsot a decade.
It’s not just the losses either. It’s the multiple 4th quarter dissapearances, the body language, the run and build a super team both times the going got tough, you know the same thing he’s going to do again after this year. I also don’t think it’s a good look when the guy goingg head to head with Lebron won Finals MVP not once, but twice. He was also clearly outshined by Durant last year, and Durant got the better of him in their one on one situations. You can manipulate stats all you want, but it’s the context of what they did as individuals in a team sport where the object is to win championships that matters the most. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
It doesn't if you are actually thinking about what you're arguing. Using your logic, it would have been better for LeBron to lose early as Jordan did and go 3-0 in NBA Finals rather than go 3-5 and lose to the Warriors. It makes no sense.
So if Lebron did ‘lose early’ more often and was 3-0 in NBA Finals appearances at this point in his career, you’re arguing that 3-0 is more impressive than 6-0?
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin:
So if Lebron did ‘lose early’ more often and was 3-0 in NBA Finals appearances at this point in his career, you’re arguing that 3-0 is more impressive than 6-0?
Another interesting take.
Exactly. If Lebron were 3-0 after playing in an abysmal conference for almost a decade, we wouldn’t even be having this argument (at least with anybody other than KCC/Wright). [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Nobody is saying he was better off losing last week.
Nobody is saying it (because it's stupid), but that is the logical premise of the entire "6-0/3-5" argument. Jordan is being credited for having his playoff series losses earlier than LeBron did. That makes no sense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin:
So if Lebron did ‘lose early’ more often and was 3-0 in NBA Finals appearances at this point in his career, you’re arguing that 3-0 is more impressive than 6-0?
Another interesting take.
Uh, no. Not sure how that conclusion was drawn from anything that was written, but I see now that there is no point in continuing this. Facts/logically consistent arguments isn't something that MJ backers have on their side anymore. [Reply]
