We, the NFL, condemn racism and the systematic oppression of Black People. We, the NFL, admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest. We, the NFL, believe Black Lives Matter. #InspireChangepic.twitter.com/ENWQP8A0sv
Originally Posted by staylor26:
No, I clearly said that there are studies that dispute it as well, but ignore that part. I also acknowledged there’s some truth to that kind of racism.
Let’s stick to police brutality. I’m not going to allow you guys to move the goalposts on what’s supposed the real issue because you want to prove racism still exists (which I’m already aware of and will acknowledge).
Dude, there's more to police brutality than just murder statistics. I've seen cops pull black people out of cars and club the shit out of them. I've seen them shove them to the ground when they weren't resisting. Where are the stats for things like that? Does it even get reported if nobody gets it on camera?
And wouldn't you agree that it's doubtful that the murder statistics are accurate? I mean, seeing how Police departments behave when the fucking things are caught on camera? How do you think it goes when it's not?
And if you think these protests are only about George Floyd, you're way off base. It's about Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Armery (not active police that shot him) and everyone that came before, and ALL of the racist bullshit that community has to tolerate on a daily basis. It's ALL CONNECTED. You're trying to separate something that is a part of a SYSTEMIC problem. You can't. One way you could look at these protests is this: It's like the black community is saying, " And on top of EVERYTHING, you all can just murder us on camera and get away with it!" It's all connected, man. There's no separating it.
There are plenty of statistics in that massive dump of stats Twisted Chief dropped on you that indicate that those black kids you talk about are RIGHT to be taught to consider the Police a threat. You just don't want to admit that.
And there are so many videos of the cops being violent without cause during these riots in so many cities that I don't know what to tell you if you haven't seen it.
We have a fucking Police problem. It's a culture of violence. It's not a few bad apples. But we have a bigger systemic racism situation that is currently boiling over. The Police problem is the catalyst. [Reply]
Originally Posted by crazycoffey:
For the last 6 years it’s really felt like every aspect in life comes down to racist cops. Never racist law makers, lawyers and judges. If more black people are being convicted than it’s the system, not the cops. Or is it? I mean, if any person gets belligerent to a judge, that’s when you see power trips come out.
But it’s in sports, tv shows and movies, all over the internet. It’s almost like the “Alex sucks” narrative took over every conversation on CP. We know there are flaws in the whole system.
So now; how do we fix it?
Burn and/or steal? Obvious no. But it’s happeneing.
Defund the police? I don’t think that will help. But the idea is gaining ground in some areas.
Education and training? I think that’s a better direction. But that applies to everyone. I see people calling for murder 1st in these cases and often times the variables and facts don’t meet the criteria in the letter of the law. Everyone’s definitions of law, justice, racism, brutality etc are all different.
Too many emotional connections. It’s not a worse crime if you get a chance to see it and have an emotional reaction to it. That’s happening too much on both sides
Most cops are good people in a broken system. We've seen some incredible police chiefs who can't do anything because the union won't let them. Good cops get blamed for bad cops not getting held accountable and can't speak out for fear of retaliation. Here is a good starting point for conversation. You may not agree with all the points, but it at least provides ideas. Reasonable ideas. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/
The huge one for me is broken windows policing. Let's start first with the US's obsession with incarceration which is outrageously higher than any country in the free world. Read up on the prison industrial complex and it backs everything youve said about the machine that enables this broken system. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
Thank you for sharing this. I have nothing more to add to this thread when you’ve decided that that’s just the acceptable reality and “nothing will ever change that.”
Its more of his strawman nonsense. "Racism exists and it sucks but oh well too bad that's how its gonna be" Yet he's got tons of "inner-city black friends" that have no problem with him thinking like that. All of us libtards have no idea what they think and actually offend them by saying racism is an issue, but they'll tell him all about their thoughts on race, police and the breakdown of the family :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Most cops are good people in a broken system. We've seen some incredible police chiefs who can't do anything because the union won't let them. Good cops get blamed for bad cops not getting held accountable and can't speak out for fear of retaliation. Here is a good starting point for conversation. You may not agree with all the points, but it at least provides ideas. Reasonable ideas. https://www.joincampaignzero.org/
The huge one for me is broken windows policing. Let's start first with the US's obsession with incarceration which is outrageously higher than any country in the free world. Read up on the prison industrial complex and it backs everything youve said about the machine that enables this broken system.
Now, here is a possible constructive conversation.
I agree that not all cops are bad, but there are more than a few bad apples, and there's a culture of not snitching that is about as bad as in the gangbangers.
Private Prisons are total bullshit; like all capitalist endeavors, it increases demand for product. In this case, prisoners are the product. So that's certainly one area where we could make a huge dent, we outlaw private prisons.
And you're spot on with the Police unions protecting these cops that are not worthy of wearing the uniform. It pains me as I am generally VERY pro union, but clearly this is a big problem. This 'thin blue line' of silence has got to stop. It's one area in which all four cops involved being arrested in Minneapolis might be a positive step. I'm sure it's happened before, but publicly holding them ALL responsible is a big message.
I don't agree with defunding Police entirely, but we sure as shit need to police where they're spending their budgets. The armored cars and military style weaponry is fucking ridiculous and not helping their image. I'd rather pay cops more, and screen applicants better than see any more of that bullshit.
Also, I think it used to be that cops had to live in the beat they worked. I'd like to see that again. I think a disconnect between the Police and the areas they police are part of the problem. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mkp785:
Its more of his strawman nonsense. "Racism exists and it sucks but oh well too bad that's how its gonna be" Yet he's got tons of "inner-city black friends" that have no problem with him thinking like that. All of us libtards have no idea what they think and actually offend them by saying racism is an issue, but they'll tell him all about their thoughts on race, police and the breakdown of the family :-)
Originally Posted by crazycoffey:
For the last 6 years it’s really felt like every aspect in life comes down to racist cops. Never racist law makers, lawyers and judges. If more black people are being convicted than it’s the system, not the cops. Or is it? I mean, if any person gets belligerent to a judge, that’s when you see power trips come out.
But it’s in sports, tv shows and movies, all over the internet. It’s almost like the “Alex sucks” narrative took over every conversation on CP. We know there are flaws in the whole system.
So now; how do we fix it?
Burn and/or steal? Obvious no. But it’s happeneing.
Defund the police? I don’t think that will help. But the idea is gaining ground in some areas.
Education and training? I think that’s a better direction. But that applies to everyone. I see people calling for murder 1st in these cases and often times the variables and facts don’t meet the criteria in the letter of the law. Everyone’s definitions of law, justice, racism, brutality etc are all different.
Too many emotional connections. It’s not a worse crime if you get a chance to see it and have an emotional reaction to it. That’s happening too much on both sides
Simple solution: accountability. I've read your posts before and if I remember you're a LEO. So, if a fellow officer were to kill someone wrongly then instead of that lawsuit being paid out via the taxpayers then have the LEO personally responsible, or even better have that money come out the retirement fund for the other LEO's. How soon would the "bad apples" in the force feel the heat if they had to deal with heat from everyone else whose pension (including yours) just got lighter....? [Reply]
Originally Posted by mkp785:
Simple solution: accountability. I've read your posts before and if I remember you're a LEO. So, if a fellow officer were to kill someone wrongly then instead of that lawsuit being paid out via the taxpayers then have the LEO personally responsible, or even better have that money come out the retirement fund for the other LEO's. How soon would the "bad apples" in the force feel the heat if they had to deal with heat from everyone else whose pension (including yours) just got lighter....?
Police should not investigate themselves. Other countries like Canada use panels made up of impartial community members. They also have frequent community meetings. We don't do that here. It's always been their way or the highway and that's exactly the kind of 1-way dialogue that leads to citizens frustrated about not being heard. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mkp785:
Simple solution: accountability. I've read your posts before and if I remember you're a LEO. So, if a fellow officer were to kill someone wrongly then instead of that lawsuit being paid out via the taxpayers then have the LEO personally responsible, or even better have that money come out the retirement fund for the other LEO's. How soon would the "bad apples" in the force feel the heat if they had to deal with heat from everyone else whose pension (including yours) just got lighter....?
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Police should not investigate themselves. Other countries like Canada use panels made up of impartial community members. They also have frequent community meetings. We don't do that here. It's always been their way or the highway and that's exactly the kind of 1-way dialogue that leads to citizens frustrated about not being heard.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Now, here is a possible constructive conversation.
I agree that not all cops are bad, but there are more than a few bad apples, and there's a culture of not snitching that is about as bad as in the gangbangers.
Private Prisons are total bullshit; like all capitalist endeavors, it increases demand for product. In this case, prisoners are the product. So that's certainly one area where we could make a huge dent, we outlaw private prisons.
And you're spot on with the Police unions protecting these cops that are not worthy of wearing the uniform. It pains me as I am generally VERY pro union, but clearly this is a big problem. This 'thin blue line' of silence has got to stop. It's one area in which all four cops involved being arrested in Minneapolis might be a positive step. I'm sure it's happened before, but publicly holding them ALL responsible is a big message.
I don't agree with defunding Police entirely, but we sure as shit need to police where they're spending their budgets. The armored cars and military style weaponry is ****ing ridiculous and not helping their image. I'd rather pay cops more, and screen applicants better than see any more of that bullshit.
Also, I think it used to be that cops had to live in the beat they worked. I'd like to see that again. I think a disconnect between the Police and the areas they police are part of the problem.
Absolutely. Camden implemented a pretty radical model. Will be interesting to see how it works. At the very least the police needs to become part of communities again, not just the bad guys knocking down doors. I am uncomfortable using the word defund police because if gladly have more resources put into community relations and training. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Police should not investigate themselves. Other countries like Canada use panels made up of impartial community members. They also have frequent community meetings. We don't do that here. It's always been their way or the highway and that's exactly the kind of 1-way dialogue that leads to citizens frustrated about not being heard.
Well alot of that has to do with the union. I work for a union myself so I'm almost always pro-union but I feel like they wield too much power. If they don't want to give any of it back then make them responsible for their members problems. I don't see it as police investigating themselves as much as its taking their words at heart. They say its a brotherhood and fraternal order, well then you are now responsible for your brothers mistakes. When that brother messes up other officers can help pay for it-as a group. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Now, here is a possible constructive conversation.
I agree that not all cops are bad, but there are more than a few bad apples, and there's a culture of not snitching that is about as bad as in the gangbangers.
I'd say about 90% of cops are great people.9.9% were once great at their job but now coming for retirement...average cops but come off as assholes. .1% Maybe they got into it for the right reasons maybe not but they are your bad cops. Not snitching? No one hates dirty cops more than cops because it destroys everything they believe in and makes all cops look bad. If you do something illegal then someones going to say something. Their had been many internal complaints on the Minnesota cop
Private Prisons are total bullshit; like all capitalist endeavors, it increases demand for product. In this case, prisoners are the product. So that's certainly one area where we could make a huge dent, we outlaw private prisons.
I agree. I hate the idea of private prisons and private services in prisons
And you're spot on with the Police unions protecting these cops that are not worthy of wearing the uniform. It pains me as I am generally VERY pro union, but clearly this is a big problem. This 'thin blue line' of silence has got to stop. It's one area in which all four cops involved being arrested in Minneapolis might be a positive step. I'm sure it's happened before, but publicly holding them ALL responsible is a big message.
I'm 50/50 on a police union but not for the reason you state because cops are fired all the time and a union isn't going or able to get in the way of a reasonable reason. They don't announce firings to the public or investigations generally but their is HEAVY accountability. Maybe not in the 70's, 80's or even 90's but the last 20 years or so there is.
I don't agree with defunding Police entirely, but we sure as shit need to police where they're spending their budgets. The armored cars and military style weaponry is ****ing ridiculous and not helping their image. I'd rather pay cops more, and screen applicants better than see any more of that bullshit.
You really can't defund the police legally without the state signing off. If the state signs off the federal government can step in. A small town generally the Sheriff's Office will take over (negotiated) but a city like Minneapolis it's nearly impossible. It's an election talking point.
Militarizing the police is a necessity with the arms that a lot of criminals have right now.
There is a big hiring problem in law enforcement around the country. It's due primarily to the anti-leo rhetoric since Obama took office. It's hard to good applicants to fill the massive holes. It's nice to say you want to raise the standards but good luck.
Also, I think it used to be that cops had to live in the beat they worked. I'd like to see that again. I think a disconnect between the Police and the areas they police are part of the problem.
I would like the police to go back to community policing. Walk the beats. Walk into businesses. Chat with people. (some) cities are using their police to pay their bills with heavy traffic stop citations and thats all they do until a call comes out. Get back to community policing.