Nolan and Zack Snyder, definitely an interesting team. There are already rumors now that Zod is going to be the villain.
I have to say I'm excited that it "appears" they aren't going to go totally out of left field and do something stupid and out of character for Superman. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Brainiac:
I REALLY liked the movie, because it was the first Superman movie ever made that was both serious and watchable. The Superman Returns movie of several years was such an abortion that I wanted to hunt down the people who made it so I could beat the hell out them, and the Christopher Reeve movies just had too much idiotic farce in them. I mean, whose idea was it to have Gene Hackman play Lex Luthor as a comedic figure with a mumbling doofus named Otis as his henchman and with a stupid non-sexy "Miss Tessmacher" as his gun moll? Those were horrible movies.
THIS movie took the Superman character seriously. Some people have been complaining about the flashbacks, but I thought they were a very effective way to mix the backstory in with the events currently going on.
The only thing I didn't like was the excessive use of hand cameras. I know filmmakers have liked to do that to bring a sense of realism ever since the Cops TV show became popular, but I find it distracting and annoying. Also, the extreme closeups made Diane Lane look like an old hag. But I thought the storyline was great, and the special effects for the action scenes were excellent. I do wish they'd cast a hotter woman as Lois Lane, however.
Having said all that, I'll also say I plan to see it again. I think the comparison to Batman Begins is pretty accurate.
Superman II was one of the greatest superhero movies ever. [Reply]
You've got to remember the mythology of Krypton in the movie. Zod was bio-engineered. But not as a soldier. As a general. He orchestrates the movements of other people in battles. He doesn't fight them himself. And he didn't even rise through the ranks. He was born to be what he was, and it's all he ever was. So your fight at the end was between an untested Superman new to the real power he has and a somewhat unbalanced strategist/tactician 33 years behind in terms of adjusting to Earth.
Oh gotcha.
I just wish they did make Zod stronger cause I never felt like Superman was in any kind of danger at all through out the entire film.
With The Dark Knight Rises, I really felt Batman was gonna die at the hands of Bane. Bane was absolutely scary in that film. [Reply]
I guess I'm going to go my whole life without seeing a really great, modern Superman movie. I should just accept it. Man of Steel is an immature, scattershot mess. Completely overwrought. I love that they took him to sci-fi roots and I love that they wanted to go a more serious route, but this joyless attempt left me hoping Zack Snyder is just done. That guy makes hollow action fests and nothing more. The only reason the over reverential "Watchman" was any good at all was because he just literally translated the comic.
Man of Steel betrayed the character of Superman completely.
Spoiler!
He didn't give a damn about the people around him. He never tried to take a fight out of a populated area. Smallville was effectively destroyed and it was his choice to fight on mainstreet. He took Zod OUT of a cornfield and into town, for Christ's sake. "Wow! Metropolis was basically destroyed! Should I search the rubble for survivors? Make sure no more building are about to collapse? Naw. I'll just have a meaningless kiss with this reporter with whom I've established no real connection beyond catching her a few times. THEN I'll snap Zod's neck because I care about that poor family so much! (Even though I've shown no regard for the collateral damage of my fights outside of where it was completely convenient for me.)
This movie had an interesting plot that belonged in a second movie after we'd been given time to get to know and give a shit about Superman. Batman Begins gave us a whole movie to invest in Batman before the plot and villain heavy Dark Knight. Superman got no such treatment. By the end he was still just a chin and a cape. All the half-baked platitudes Jonathan Kent can spout don't make me care about Clark/Kal/Supes. (And his death scene was absolutely laughable. Cool idea, ruined by Zack Snyder.) It was a total disservice and I am mourning another failed attempt at taking the quintessential superhero to the big screen.
My only encouragement is that Snyder didn't **** anything up so badly it can't be fixed with a GREAT sequel, but unless he is replaced (As well as David Goyer) it won't happen. I even liked the cast. Hopefully the fan/critical backlash will oust Snyder, but I'm not holding my breath./rant [Reply]
Originally Posted by keg in kc:
I ****ing loved it.
When I first heard Snyder was involved I expected a good looking film with manic action and very little heart or brains. As it turns out, there's all kinds of emotion in it beginning to end, and while the action is unlike anything I'd seen before (imagine the battle at the end of Avengers on steroids) the movie as a whole is surprisingly subdued and I'd even say somber in tone. Although there are a few light moments (that all worked for me), it isn't even in the same galaxy as the Donner films in terms of style. It was much more of a grown-up movie than I expected. People die, it's very science fiction at times (Krypton is freaking alien, it took a bit to get used to) and while the narrative jumps all over the place, nothing ever really felt rushed. It just felt...right.
And this may be the most origin-y origin story I've ever seen.
Spoiler!
Usually we call stuff 'origin story' but the origin really only takes up a small part of the narrative. Man of Steel is an origin story beginning to end. While he is in costume fairly early on, he isn't actually Superman, like we know the character, until the very, very end. Hell, maybe he isn't really even Superman yet. This film is about him becoming Superman. The entire movie is is about that journey, about that discovery, about learning who and what he is (and even about how to fight, which he obviously does not know). And I thought it was amazing.
I can't wait to see where the franchise goes from here.
I also can't wait to see it again in a few days.
I respect your opinion, and trust me I wanted to love this movie, but all the emotion it has feels completely unearned to me.
Spoiler!
It just has catastrophic event after catastrophic event and lens flares (Thanks Star Trek!) followed by screaming.
Like I said before emotionally hollow. Also, when the like three times they tried to introduce some levity, they had established such a morose world and hero that their attempts felt jarring. I have a free pass to see this again, and I doubt I will. [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
Non-spoiler review: It’s not for me. It had some very nice moments, several I wish I’d written (and at least three I did, I’m proud to say–there was lots of BIRTHRIGHT in it), but I can’t imagine wanting to watch it again anytime soon. YMMV. It’s a good science-fiction movie, but it’s very cold. It’s not a very satisfying super-hero movie. That said, if your favorite part of SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE was Superman standing in the Fortress while Jor-El lectured him, you’re gonna love MAN OF STEEL.
As far as the Clark/Lois dynamic goes, my impression was there was lengthy conversation offscreen between the two that took place between the moment he met her at his father's grave and told her about his death, and when he shows up at the farm and tells Martha "she's a friend".
Maybe it needed to be more obvious so everyone would catch that. :-)
It did feel to me like things may have been cut to keep the running time more reasonable, and I'm guessing that may have been one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere there exists a 3-hour version of the movie. [Reply]
As far as the Clark/Lois dynamic goes, my impression was there was lengthy conversation offscreen between the two that took place between the moment he met her at his father's grave and told her about his death, and when he shows up at the farm and tells Martha "she's a friend".
Maybe it needed to be more obvious so everyone would catch that. :-)
It did feel to me like things may have been cut to keep the running time more reasonable, and I'm guessing that may have been one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere there exists a 3-hour version of the movie.
Spoiler!
There are a lot of things in this movie that could have been said offscreen. (Much of Jor El's lecturing for starters) but development of the relationship between the two leads is not one of them. I just think it's weird that Batman Begins spent more time and energy developing a relationship between Batman and a character made up for the movie than this movie did Clark and Lois. Much more.
This movie wasn't about Lois and Clark's relationship. It was about Lois and Clark meeting. That's all. Lois found him. They talked. They kissed once right after the world almost ended.
The relationship is for the next movie.
Same is true for the collateral damage and "betraying the character of Superman". People are acting like Superman was supposed to be the character we recognize from 80 years of history as soon as he puts his costume on. He's not. He's a guy who's been hiding who and what he is for literally his entire life until he's dragged out in front of the world. He's just learning about Krypton and Jor-El. He's never been (I assume) in a fight with anyone ever in his life, much less someone with the same power he has. He's barely learned he can fly. He's not really Superman yet. He's just starting to learn what he can do. And I imagine he's just starting to learn the consequences of what he can do. There's no magic crystals to teach him everything there is to know. He doesn't disappear for 10 years and come back. He's just getting started.
And it's actually potentially a good setup for the 2nd film. The consequences of all that destruction. Maybe that's where Lex Luther comes in. Maybe that's where Bruce Wayne comes in. Maybe it ties in some other way.
The only thing I didn't like was the tornado scene (rife with inaccuracies) and all of the product placement (were they hard up for money?)....I did like the Wayne Enterprises Logo on the satellite and the Lexcorp logo on the gas truck as well as the mention of captain Ferris (Green Lanterns GF). So the groundwork is there for Justice League....they just didn't commit to it. Overall, the one word I have for this movie as a superman movie is....acceptable.
I've been avoiding this thread for months because I wanted to avoid spoilers... but I finally saw it this afternoon. Pretty solid. I always feel like I need to watch movies like this a second time to take it all in. Definitely chock full of action. Epic action movie... but I never really felt overwhelmed or exhausted by it. I think I might have said this a few years back after Returns... but they are just never going to make everyone happy with a Superman movie. Too many varying opinions of what the character should and shouldn't be and do.
They definitely went head-on toward addressing issues people have with the Superman "storyline" in general.
Spoiler!
Specifically, Lois being a great journalist but not being able to figure Superman out. Not in this film... she's the one who puts the pieces together. That's why I enjoyed the ending. As the film went on I was beginning to wonder if Clark would ever work at the Planet in this universe. They handled that very well. I was almost more excited for the next film than excited for this one.
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I love how they put forth real-world problems Clark would encounter growing up. You almost wanted to see more of that, but eventually you have to get him in the suit and get the action going.
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Seems like the biggest complaint I keep reading online is about all the disaster and destruction over the last hour. And it may have been a bit much but I don't understand the argument that if Superman flies away to a cornfield or away from Smallville and Metropolis these villains will blindly follow and continue the fight there.
There are a lot of things in this movie that could have been said offscreen. (Much of Jor El's lecturing for starters) but development of the relationship between the two leads is not one of them. I just think it's weird that Batman Begins spent more time and energy developing a relationship between Batman and a character made up for the movie than this movie did Clark and Lois. Much more.
Spoiler!
I don't understand what's wrong with Jor-El's role. I don't know if it was the best part of the old films but it was certainly a very, very important part. Him not being included in Superman II because they didn't want to pay Brando is probably what keeps it from being maybe the greatest superhero film ever. The scenes they cut out between Reeve and Brando after Donner left were great.
I'll even buy the Clark and Lois thing, since yes, they kissed after the world almost ended, etc. What I won't buy is the blanket "he's not Superman yet" argument. I understand him not being great at fighting or knowing the best way to handle problems and all. His wonton lack of concern for the MILLIONS of people dying around him not to mention his philosophical argument with Zod while people were trapped in rubble and continuing to die... all ridiculous. It is NOT Superman learning on the job. It is a thoughtless screenplay and direction. All of this aside, as a movie, the TERRIBLE dialogue is probably it's biggest weakness. Just terrible. I cringed in the scene between Clark and Ma Kent on the house steps. Any scene with a child Clark in it was terrible both for dialogue and the awful child castings. The scene with Clark and the priest? REALLY? HE GOES TO A CHURCH TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO? Unforgivably cliche. Speaking of... who didn't know Pa Kent was going to die THAT VERY SCENE as soon as Clark told him he wasn't his father. They might as well have winked at the camera. Sure, it was a flashback from the cemetery so maybe that was obvious anyway... but putting that line there was a cheap move to sow some Spider-man/Batman guilt in with his origin without earning it at all. I mean, this movie was just a mess.
Cool stuff? Royals shirt. Last fight was awesome if you ignore Superman putting thousands more at risk with no thought. Smallville scene was a fantastic action sequence (again ignoring the irresponsibility). Focusing a lot on Krypton was cool. Last scene with Clark was good. "Welcome to the Planet" was a great line. Good cast overall (except child actors). Off the top of my head, that's all I got.
I don't understand what's wrong with Jor-El's role. I don't know if it was the best part of the old films but it was certainly a very, very important part. Him not being included in Superman II because they didn't want to pay Brando is probably what keeps it from being maybe the greatest superhero film ever. The scenes they cut out between Reeve and Brando after Donner left were great.
Spoiler!
I was fine with Jor-El's role. What I wasn't fine with was the relentless exposition dumps. Find better ways to get that info across. It's clumsy and lazy.
