We, the NFL, condemn racism and the systematic oppression of Black People. We, the NFL, admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest. We, the NFL, believe Black Lives Matter. #InspireChangepic.twitter.com/ENWQP8A0sv
Originally Posted by jettio:
Why don't you believe Drew Brees when he says he spoke with teammates and other players?
Bullied? That word does not fit.
He said or wrote what he wanted to say and believes each time.
I believe he did. My point was that he was attacked immediately and wasn’t given an opportunity to expand his position and instead was pressured to change it. That’s fine if he decided he wanted to but pretending he was without immediate and intolerant pressure of his opinion is disingenuous. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
So you are going with ignore Jenkins posts option?
“We're done asking, Drew. And people who share your sentiments, who express those and push them throughout the world, the airwaves, are the problem. And it's unfortunate because I considered you a friend. I looked up to you. You're somebody who I had a great deal of respect for. But sometimes you should shut the f--- up.”
There’s a reason Jenkins deleted one of his post. And it’s not because it represented a thoughtful response.
I think his response was entirely understandable under the circumstances. I think people criticizing this sort of response are completely underestimating the size of the problem.
I think Brees is also a good guy and realized what he said was either wrong, or taken wrong, and I'm sure the two of them can talk it out. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I think his response was entirely understandable under the circumstances. I think people criticizing this sort of response are completely underestimating the size of the problem.
I think Brees is also a good guy and realized what he said was either wrong, or taken wrong, and I'm sure the two of them can talk it out.
When circumstances are used as justification for shouting down a reasonable opinion you don’t agree with using emotionally based accusations I can’t defend that sort of response.
It sounds like they did talk it out and are good now. I just wish it would occur amongst themselves instead of in the public eye. It’s a more honest and I believe ultimately productive method. But again that not occurring isn’t unique to this situation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
When circumstances are used as justification for shouting down a reasonable opinion you don’t agree with using emotionally based accusations I can’t defend that sort of response.
It sounds like they did talk it out and are good now. I just wish it would occur amongst themselves instead of in the public eye. It’s a more honest and I believe ultimately productive method. But again that not occurring isn’t unique to this situation.
Then would you agree that it was wrong to make nba players take off "I can't breathe" shirts? That the Rams shouldn't have been shouted down for walking onto the field with their hands up? These guys weren't just shouted down they were flat out silenced. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Then would you agree that it was wrong to make nba players take off "I can't breathe" shirts? That the Rams shouldn't have been shouted down for walking onto the field with their hands up? These guys weren't just shouted down they were flat out silenced.
I don’t agree it was wrong (or right) because it’s not a question of right or wrong. It’s a question of good or bad for business, regardless of opinions, between employees and employers and what the employer wants. People can argue all day if those were good or bad business decisions but I don’t really care to. [Reply]
Lol at fans who cheer for wife-beaters, drug dealers, rapists, etc, but when somebody kneels or may be “woke” they can no longer cheer for the team. Just lol!
And I say this as a person who is no fan of kneeling and certainly isn’t “woke” [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Here's what you're not understanding-and I'm meaning this in the most neutral, trying to be helpful way I possibly can in this day and age:
White folks don't live in the same America that black folks do. White people don't get choked out on the street for passing a counterfeit $20 bill. White folks don't get shot to death in their own home on mistaken identity like Breonna Taylor did. Or chased down and shot while jogging.
And these aren't a handful of isolated cases. This kind of thing has been going on forever.
If you don't live in a city, in a mixed race neighborhood, you might not have actually seen that with your own eyes, I get it. I grew up in small towns, and my concepts of race were much different. Now I live in East Hyde Park, Mannheim Park actually. Right off 39th Street between Troost and Paseo. I own a three story brick shirtwaist on a big double lot.
Now that I've lived in mid-town Kansas City for 25 years, I see things very differently. I see every day how I'm treated versus how they are, and especially from Police-but not JUST from the Police. At the corner store. From other neighbors who haven't been here as long but the awesome old houses drew them here. I know that my black neighbor next door, when he gets pulled over has a very different set of fears than I do. I'm just going to get a ticket. He might get shot. He's a retired educator, worked for the school system for 30 years and owns his own home. I'm the rock-and-roller with the history of questionable leisure-time activies. I've had the cops called to the house exactly once in 25 years, and they told us to keep it down at 4 am.
It's really not hyperbole; it's very real. And a lot of America that lives in the suburbs or small towns have no idea. To them, black folks in the city are all dope slinging gang bangers or on welfare. That's like saying all small town folks are racist rednecks. To the Police, a lot of them see the black people that way too.
When the athletes kneel or wear shirts or some other visible protest, it's SUPPOSED to make you uncomfortable. It's SUPPOSED to make you think about things. They're using their celebrity to draw attention to something very important. When you ignore that long enough, you're going to get riots. Even then, most of the protesters over the last few weeks have been peaceful, with handfulls of people that are taking advantage by looting and destroying. And in several already documented cases, some of those have been white people that have very different reasons for being there. Some to stoke the racial violence, some just to loot free shit. In my first hand experience, I've seen KCPD react with violence to people just marching and chanting. The news is full of Police overreactions, you don't have to look far.
There's clearly a Police culture that needs to change. A certain amount of brutality has just been accepted for far too long. It's more than just 'a few bad apples'. This isn't about politics. It's way, way more than that.
So when they kneel during the anthem, you can listen, and you can consider why...or you can wait and have race riots. it's an escalation, and it's inevitable.
And if it makes you uncomfortable...well, yeah, that's the point. You can react by saying, "I don't like this." or you can learn WHY they're doing so. Just because you've not had first hand experience doesn't mean it isn't real. We're all Americans, but some of us live in a different America.
I've been staying away from CP during all of this, and I probably will retreat again, but I just wanted to say that I'm so goddamned proud of Patrick and Tyrann. Not just for this public service announcement but just the quality of men they are. Drew Brees isn't being muffled, he's being criticized-and while that criticism is well founded nobody's going to run him out of the league. He reconsidered how his statement was being taken and clarified. He's been a fine man for a long time, and his image will recover.
That's a long post, and many of you won't read it, or flame away and disregard. That's fine. It's MY truth, as a longtime observer 'imbedded' if you will for decades in and around the black community in the city. It would be my hope that you would at least consider what I've had to say.
This. And this. And then this again. And then repeat. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Here's what you're not understanding-and I'm meaning this in the most neutral, trying to be helpful way I possibly can in this day and age:
White folks don't live in the same America that black folks do. White people don't get choked out on the street for passing a counterfeit $20 bill. White folks don't get shot to death in their own home on mistaken identity like Breonna Taylor did. Or chased down and shot while jogging.
And these aren't a handful of isolated cases. This kind of thing has been going on forever.
If you don't live in a city, in a mixed race neighborhood, you might not have actually seen that with your own eyes, I get it. I grew up in small towns, and my concepts of race were much different. Now I live in East Hyde Park, Mannheim Park actually. Right off 39th Street between Troost and Paseo. I own a three story brick shirtwaist on a big double lot.
Now that I've lived in mid-town Kansas City for 25 years, I see things very differently. I see every day how I'm treated versus how they are, and especially from Police-but not JUST from the Police. At the corner store. From other neighbors who haven't been here as long but the awesome old houses drew them here. I know that my black neighbor next door, when he gets pulled over has a very different set of fears than I do. I'm just going to get a ticket. He might get shot. He's a retired educator, worked for the school system for 30 years and owns his own home. I'm the rock-and-roller with the history of questionable leisure-time activies. I've had the cops called to the house exactly once in 25 years, and they told us to keep it down at 4 am.
It's really not hyperbole; it's very real. And a lot of America that lives in the suburbs or small towns have no idea. To them, black folks in the city are all dope slinging gang bangers or on welfare. That's like saying all small town folks are racist rednecks. To the Police, a lot of them see the black people that way too.
When the athletes kneel or wear shirts or some other visible protest, it's SUPPOSED to make you uncomfortable. It's SUPPOSED to make you think about things. They're using their celebrity to draw attention to something very important. When you ignore that long enough, you're going to get riots. Even then, most of the protesters over the last few weeks have been peaceful, with handfulls of people that are taking advantage by looting and destroying. And in several already documented cases, some of those have been white people that have very different reasons for being there. Some to stoke the racial violence, some just to loot free shit. In my first hand experience, I've seen KCPD react with violence to people just marching and chanting. The news is full of Police overreactions, you don't have to look far.
There's clearly a Police culture that needs to change. A certain amount of brutality has just been accepted for far too long. It's more than just 'a few bad apples'. This isn't about politics. It's way, way more than that.
So when they kneel during the anthem, you can listen, and you can consider why...or you can wait and have race riots. it's an escalation, and it's inevitable.
And if it makes you uncomfortable...well, yeah, that's the point. You can react by saying, "I don't like this." or you can learn WHY they're doing so. Just because you've not had first hand experience doesn't mean it isn't real. We're all Americans, but some of us live in a different America.
I've been staying away from CP during all of this, and I probably will retreat again, but I just wanted to say that I'm so goddamned proud of Patrick and Tyrann. Not just for this public service announcement but just the quality of men they are. Drew Brees isn't being muffled, he's being criticized-and while that criticism is well founded nobody's going to run him out of the league. He reconsidered how his statement was being taken and clarified. He's been a fine man for a long time, and his image will recover.
That's a long post, and many of you won't read it, or flame away and disregard. That's fine. It's MY truth, as a longtime observer 'imbedded' if you will for decades in and around the black community in the city. It would be my hope that you would at least consider what I've had to say.
Trust me I know what they’re saying.
The real problem is no one is considering it a two way street. It’s not one way or the other. I’ll kneel with them all lined up for a moment of silence if they’ll stand as the anthem starts playing. I want less police involved deaths too.
PS- I’m not defending any recent police involved deaths. But also have to say killing cops stealing and burning buildings; are not the way either. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Does any want to talk about the fact that a cop is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black man than the other way around?
I would imagine their is a correlation between that stat and how a cop handles the interaction with black people. No different that a cop is completely different if he knows you have a gun vs if you don't, even if you are completely legal. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Does any want to talk about the fact that a cop is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black man than the other way around?
Does anybody want to talk about the fact that other race based police killings stats don’t really support these narratives as well?
I’m FAR from a racist, but anecdotal evidence isn’t enough for me. I need fact/stats, and they don’t support the narratives at all.
Without a citation, everything you just said is anecdotal. [Reply]
Also, I can tell a lot of you don’t actually know any black people because there are a lot who will tell you they don’t think racism is a big deal and they didn’t experience it much in their lives. In fact, some find the idea that white people can speak for all of them by saying otherwise offensive.
Stop looking at all of this in such black and white terms. It’s more gray than you think. You can believe black lives matter and still understand this. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Also, I can tell a lot of you don’t actually know any black people because there are a lot who will tell you they don’t think racism is a big deal and they didn’t experience it much in their lives. In fact, some find the idea that white people can speak for all of them by saying otherwise offensive.
Stop looking at all of this in such black and white terms. It’s more gray than you think. You can believe black lives matter and still understand this.
Dude. No.
Not in the city there aren't. No fuckin' way.
Where do you live? Because it ain't in the city.
This is what I was talking about. You don't have to be racist to just not understand what you have not seen and experienced yourself. [Reply]
