About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.
I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Definitely. I’m surprised it’s not more pronounced.
However it should be noted that some of the highest rated episodes (Battle of the Bastards, Hold the Door, Light of the Seven) were light on dialogue.
The problem with ratings is that they're arbitrary. Different people value different things.
Some folks consider the battle episodes to be bottle episodes for Game of Thrones. Obviously they're the most expensive ones, so they aren't traditionally bottles in that sense, but the locations are more limited and the focus tends to be on fewer characters. So they're easier to follow and understand than regular episodes. Hence more universally liked. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's funny though - I've started re-watching it and it's kinda shocking how far they go in each season.
I mean Bran's shooting arrows in Episode one and by Episode 5 the entire Stark clan is imprisoned, crippled or at war. Poor Jory Cassel didn't even survive halfway through the season.
Things move just a little faster than we remember.
And the worst parts of the entire show were some of those middle seasons where shit was interminable.
I agree that some of the pacing concerns are legitimate, but at least to a degree we ought be careful what we wish for. Some of what we THINK we remember isn't quite the way we remembered it and some of the things we want now we actually hated when they struggled to walk that line.
I was thinking about this the other day. I watched a YouTube vid with every scene of Oberyn's and it wasn't even 30 minutes.
They used to get so much done with minimal time. [Reply]
Speaking of books that take too long to come out, I just did a search for the next Dresden Files novel, Peace Talks, and realized it's been four years since the last one came out. This from a guy who'd put out 15 Dresden books (and another complete series) in 15 years. Yikes. I can't believe it's been that long. And no release date in sight. [Reply]
Is that a show thing I missed? Because by all book accounts, the three eyed raven was Brynden Rivers and he would've been in the 125-130 year old range during the events of the show.
And evidently he'd been all but dead as a human for decades but had become something of a brain built into a tree at that point. Like he was literally tapped into the roots of a weirwood (?) and that was what was keeping him alive.
Bran's just gonna age and die like a normal person unless he taps into the underground tree network. At least that would be the book canon.
I don't know that it's known how long the 3ER will live only that it's a longer lifespan than normal.In the book we didn't get a sense of how long the Bloodraven lived since he didn't die yet, right?
Originally Posted by vailpass:
I don't know that it's known how long the 3ER will live only that it's a longer lifespan than normal.In the book we didn't get a sense of how long the Bloodraven lived since he didn't die yet, right?
I got a laugh out of that meme though.
My memory of the book is that he was effectively entombed as a living corpse and the book gave the impression that his body was effectively gone; the roots that had been winding literally through his body were providing the nutrients for his mind to keep functioning. Hell, I think I remember it saying that one of his eyes was just a socket with a root growing through it.
I'd say when a tree is growing through you, you cease to be among the land of the living. And if Bran has to head off north of the wall and entomb himself to stay alive, he'd probably be abdicating his crown.
The impression I got was that the three eyed raven had a normal human lifespan until he checked out and went to live underground with the children of the forest and they put him on some kind of deciduous life support system to keep his braining functioning after his body died.
Think of it as the Futurama head in the jar and you're not that far off, IMO.
EDIT: From the Wikepedia entry on the book TER
Originally Posted by :
the three-eyed crow is revealed to be a pale, skeletal man in rotted black clothing in a weirwood throne of tangled roots. His skin is white, aside from a red blotch on his neck and cheek. He has fine, white hair long enough to reach the earthen floor. He is missing one eye, while the other is red. Weirwood roots surround the man and grow through his body, including his leg and his empty eye socket.
And like I said, I think that's at about 125 yrs old after he vanished about 50 years prior. I'd say he was simply aging like a human being and at 75 years old he went into the woods, plugged himself into his weirwood life support system and died without actually dying. [Reply]
Some weird shit's going on up there with the 3ER. Dude's got some children of the forest plugged into those roots too. IIRC, Bran sees an area with a few of them and one reaches out and tries to say something to him but can't speak. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
My memory of the book is that he was effectively entombed as a living corpse and the book gave the impression that his body was effectively gone; the roots that had been winding literally through his body were providing the nutrients for his mind to keep functioning. Hell, I think I remember it saying that one of his eyes was just a socket with a root growing through it.
I'd say when a tree is growing through you, you cease to be among the land of the living. And if Bran has to head off north of the wall and entomb himself to stay alive, he'd probably be abdicating his crown.
The impression I got was that the three eyed raven had a normal human lifespan until he checked out and went to live underground with the children of the forest and they put him on some kind of deciduous life support system to keep his braining functioning after his body died.
Think of it as the Futurama head in the jar and you're not that far off, IMO.
EDIT: From the Wikepedia entry on the book TER
And like I said, I think that's at about 125 yrs old after he vanished about 50 years prior. I'd say he was simply aging like a human being and at 75 years old he went into the woods, plugged himself into his weirwood life support system and died without actually dying.
Yes I’m well familiar with the 3ER of the books. I was disappointed in the tv version because he lacked the weirwood cyborg state. I wanted to see the book version brought to life instead we got just some guy.
But he was alive even though he had gone into the tree. [Reply]
Is that a show thing I missed? Because by all book accounts, the three eyed raven was Brynden Rivers and he would've been in the 125-130 year old range during the events of the show.
And evidently he'd been all but dead as a human for decades but had become something of a brain built into a tree at that point. Like he was literally tapped into the roots of a weirwood (?) and that was what was keeping him alive.
Bran's just gonna age and die like a normal person unless he taps into the underground tree network. At least that would be the book canon.
It's not true. I was going to mention that and did my research to find he wasn't as old in the show as in the books, so I didn't say anything. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Like I said, I don’t know what to tell you. To argue that the characters haven’t advanced since Jon got resurrected is a bit over the top. Beyond that, though, the show was always going to have to pick up the pace. They went way over the top, I agree. I just feel compelled to push back against the D/D are the devil narrative. They’ve got problems, but largely the story hit a bunch of Martin-esque beats, hit a bunch of Martin-esque narratives, and ended in a Martin-esque manner. There are things to complain about and I’ve done it. But D/D aren’t the devil that many want to paint them as.
I think the disconnect is that the people disappointed watched GoT for HOW it was about things more than WHAT it was about.
I could have and would have [and maybe I even DID] told you YEARS ago that the strength of the narrative is the depth of the explanations and the veracity of the motivations, not the bones of the sequence of events.
People were invested in the narrative because how intricate and real it was portrayed, even in a fantasy setting. It was a fictional world with fantastical threats, but the strength was in the iron grip the prose held on human nature.
That's why the meme about the progressively worse drawn horse is an apt metaphor. All the way through, you can TELL it's a horse, but it starts out creative and detailed and moving, and ends up a stick figure. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's funny though - I've started re-watching it and it's kinda shocking how far they go in each season.
I mean Bran's shooting arrows in Episode one and by Episode 5 the entire Stark clan is imprisoned, crippled or at war. Poor Jory Cassel didn't even survive halfway through the season.
Things move just a little faster than we remember.
And the worst parts of the entire show were some of those middle seasons where shit was interminable.
I agree that some of the pacing concerns are legitimate, but at least to a degree we ought be careful what we wish for. Some of what we THINK we remember isn't quite the way we remembered it and some of the things we want now we actually hated when they struggled to walk that line.
I started re-watching as well. After the first episode we shouldn't be all that surprised that Bran ends up on top as the end. He was the feature of everything in that first episode.
Also thinking about Ned Stark, he reminds me of Jock Ewing in Dallas. Where his death made him even more of immortal character and important character to the show than being alive. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Frazod:
Yeah, the whole we have a strong, fortified position, so let's line up most of our troops outside it thing is a bit confusing.
Well, the thought is defense in depth. It's the exact same approach taken today. Extend your defense as far as you can support. Once you are behind the walls, there's nowhere to go from there. It's sound tactics to have troops in front of your main line of defense. It's no different than today. You have recon far in front of the forward line of troops. Outposts, and multiple lines of defense. Of course, that's conventional warfare, not WW. But it's the same approach. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I think the disconnect is that the people disappointed watched GoT for HOW it was about things more than WHAT it was about.
I could have and would have [and maybe I even DID] told you YEARS ago that the strength of the narrative is the depth of the explanations and the veracity of the motivations, not the bones of the sequence of events.
People were invested in the narrative because how intricate and real it was portrayed, even in a fantasy setting. It was a fictional world with fantastical threats, but the strength was in the iron grip the prose held on human nature.
That's why the meme about the progressively worse drawn horse is an apt metaphor. All the way through, you can TELL it's a horse, but it starts out creative and detailed and moving, and ends up a stick figure.
On the whole I don’t disagree. And have voiced the same complaints.
The problem with the narrative is that It is just now. The metaphor doesn’t fit at all because the horse became a stick figure just as soon as the various story lines ran out of the book. There wasn’t much of a gradual slide. Since then it has shifted from dialogue to spectacle. As soon as it ran out of book material. Bar none. But people act like everything was good up until S8E3. When it’s really been the same as it has since for sure season 6. But now, D/D are the devil. It’s just hard for me to swallow. Even though I agree with the overall premise.
But again, I keep saying it, but an elite novelist took 20 years to puke out half the story. It is damn unreasonable to expect 2 screenwriters to duplicate that effort in 4 years. It could certainly be better but it was never going to be what the first half was.
My position remains that:
1. This season is a continuation of the direction of the story since running out of book. Yes the nuance is diminished. But it has been for a very long time.
2. The major plot points are very Martin-esque, despite people stomping their feet that they are not. Martin has said the main characters will end up in the same places and I have no reason to disbelieve him.
3. What it is, while lacking the nuance of the first half is still amazing fucking television.
I’ll reiterate. I agree with and have voiced similar complaints to what most people are screaming about. But it’s difficult for me to swallow that everything went to shit after S8E3 like many are insinuating. As such, it’s kind of ridiculous to just now start throwing a hissy fit, because they killed the night king and Dany did a heel turn. [Reply]
