Originally Posted by NewChief:
Is that a joking review? AotC and RotS as the "best" in the series? :-)
No, he's for realsies.
I could barely get through the review (in fact I didn't til I saw this quote and had to go back to make sure he really said it. Really? AOTC is your favorite?). I'm all for using big fancy words for emphasis, but the whole review read like that line I quoted. Every other word was one that needed to be looked up in the dictionary. Usually I can infer a meaning from the rest of the sentence, but home boy needs to put down the thesaurus, and just use plain English. [Reply]
So he loves literally everything about the movie, except for feeling there was no NEED for the movie. Got it.
And really, that review reads as if it's from a person who has never really sat down and watched Star Wars, but instead was forced to watch Rogue One after quickly getting the details and background of the prior films by browsing Wookiepedia. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
There's no doubt that the prequels were a great example of bad film making and that ROTJ was watered down by the dopey Ewoks. But the underlying story behind Star Wars is what makes it special.
The difference between Kylo Ren and Darth Vader is that Vader/Anakin was "tricked" into becoming an evil Sith Lord while Kylo Ren wants and needs to be an evil Force user. If he's "redeemed", then it'll be a failure of a story arc. He needs to die at the hands of someone in Episode IX to wipe his evil from the galaxy.
Fortunately, I think that Star Wars is now in the hands of extremely talented filmmakers that want to see Star Wars movies progress as expected after Empire, not the prequels or ROTJ.
Kylo Ren is a fascinating character because he takes that worn out Star Wars trope and turns it on its head. He's a villain, a darksider who is tempted by the light. That's so fucking cool. Seeing someone who wants to be a dark, wants to be evil, but is violently conflicted because he feels a pull toward the light, toward goodness is a fascinating thing to watch. There is so much fruitful ground to plow there.
There are ways he could be redeemed. And most of those ways would not at all be a failure of story arc or storytelling. However, they won't do that. Because he killed Han Solo. And Han Solo is beloved. There are too many people that refuse to see any way Kylo Ren could be redeemed because of that one act. There is no coming back from that in the mind of the fans.
Personally, I'd love to see them go that route. I'd love to see Kylo Ren become a force for good in the galaxy by the end of this thing. But they won't. And that's fine. I totally get it. But how fucking cool would it be to see them pull it off? Man! [Reply]
I can't say that I've seen a lot of Ren being 'pulled towards the light'.
For the most part, he's struck me as an irredeemable shitheel who's sole purpose is to impress his grandpa. His mopey side has nothing to do with being pulled toward the light but rather is just basic teenage angst from someone who doesn't feel like he can measure up.
There's not a villain worth a !@#$ in that universe right now. Even Snoke just seems like this odd cartoon character, to be honest. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I can't say that I've seen a lot of Ren being 'pulled towards the light'.
For the most part, he's struck me as an irredeemable shitheel who's sole purpose is to impress his grandpa. His mopey side has nothing to do with being pulled toward the light but rather is just basic teenage angst from someone who doesn't feel like he can measure up.
There's not a villain worth a !@#$ in that universe right now. Even Snoke just seems like this odd cartoon character, to be honest.
I mean it's explicitly stated. But yeah, I get you. He came off that way to a lot of people. I disagree. I thought he was a well drawn character and masterfully played by Driver. I think Kylo Ren is a fascinating character and one of my favorite villains in all of the Star Wars films so far. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn:
I mean it's explicitly stated. But yeah, I get you. He came off that way to a lot of people. I disagree. I thought he was a well drawn character and masterfully played by Driver. I think Kylo Ren is a fascinating character and one of my favorite villains in all of the Star Wars films so far.
Perhaps it's just escaping me at the moment. The only time I really recall him saying anything like that was his insincere moment right before he ran Han through.
Eh, to each their own. I just can't get my mind around the idea that this guy rose to be the major 'heavy' for a galactic menace.
This may be somewhat strained but I look at it similar to Lucky Luciano or someone of his ilk in organized crime. If those guys weren't hard as a coffin nail, absolute destroyer of worlds, they lost the support of their soldiers and were inevitably killed off. Frank Costello was the best example of that; guy just wasn't completely 'bought in' towards the end so his guys tried to kill him. Genovese was dumb as a rock compared to Costello but he was meaner and Costello knew it so Costello stepped aside before Genovese murdered him.
So sure - 'force user', but soft. It's just a difficult suspension of disbelief for me; someone would've absolutely offed that kid. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Perhaps it's just escaping me at the moment. The only time I really recall him saying anything like that was his insincere moment right before he ran Han through.
Eh, to each their own. I just can't get my mind around the idea that this guy rose to be the major 'heavy' for a galactic menace.
This may be somewhat strained but I look at it similar to Lucky Luciano or someone of his ilk in organized crime. If those guys weren't hard as a coffin nail, absolute destroyer of worlds, they lost the support of their soldiers and were inevitably killed off. Frank Costello was the best example of that; guy just wasn't completely 'bought in' towards the end so his guys tried to kill him. Genovese was dumb as a rock compared to Costello but he was meaner and Costello knew it so Costello stepped aside before Genovese murdered him.
So sure - 'force user', but soft. It's just a difficult suspension of disbelief for me; someone would've absolutely offed that kid.
Interesting. I thought his speech was quite sincere. He wants to be bad, but he's pulled toward the light. He knows what he has to do (to go all bad), but doesn't know if he has the strength to do it (kill papa). I thought that was all sincere. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!:
Interesting. I thought his speech was quite sincere. He wants to be bad, but he's pulled toward the light. He knows what he has to do (to go all bad), but doesn't know if he has the strength to do it (kill papa). I thought that was all sincere.
Huh.
Well like I said, to each their own. I definitely never interpreted it as such. And honestly, if I had, I may have liked him even less (seriously, #DBAP emo-Darth) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!:
Interesting. I thought his speech was quite sincere. He wants to be bad, but he's pulled toward the light. He knows what he has to do (to go all bad), but doesn't know if he has the strength to do it (kill papa). I thought that was all sincere.
It's really fascinating to me that he knows what he has to do, how far he has to go, but he can't bring himself to do it on his own. He literally needs his father to help him take that last step. I can't wait to see if it sticks in Ep 8 or if he's still struggling as much in the next one. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn:
It's really fascinating to me that he knows what he has to do, how far he has to go, but he can't bring himself to do it on his own. He literally needs his father to help him take that last step. I can't wait to see if it sticks in Ep 8 or if he's still struggling as much in the next one.
