Cant recall ever seeing a thread on this topic so i thought it was time we had one... this thread is dedicated to military weaponry of any kind, from any era or nation.
There is a seemingly endless array of novel, fascinating, revolutionary or even ill-fated hardware out there so subject material shouldnt be a problem.
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
Indeed. I was sent to the field down at Fort Hood on an investigation. The unit (a tank outfit) was doing a road march and were strafed by several F-16s. The jets came in at (I swear) radio antenna height - about 30 feet off the ground.
Magnificent to watch. Absolutely magnificent.
Yeah those old 292 antenna farms used to cause us problems. Then turning hummers into C&C vehicles with whip antennas. Arty guys were the worst mobile antenna guys, assuming you knew where larger CPs were and threat always dictating remoting antennas, so....
As much as I love the USAF, Close Air just ain’t really been their thing. A-10s killed more Marines in 1991 and early 2003 then Iraqi’s did. Court Martial of Billy Mitchell and all,.. over 20 CAS agreements with Army.
Particularly in the days of Yom Kippur lessons and CAS combined arms in that threat (1973-1991 DS). As a Marine Rifleman driving Attack Aircraft, we made it as Marine proof as a chemstick.
No Nav systems but ATC stuff, No NVDs or much night work, TLAR sights/EO stuff-“that looks about right” weapons release. Very few smart munitions. So we added snake eye fins to quit fragging ourselves, flew at 420 kts (8 miles per minutes math for Marines) and set IPs at 12 miles from targets, used 6 minute TOTs to let Arty boys mark and suppress, pushed at 4 minutes, stayed below 200 AGL using terrain, popped at 5:30, rolled inverted to acquire tgts, Mark,friendlies.
(Couldn’t see through the bottom of the jet so invert was not for show. F35 and AH-1Z have Wonder Woman helmet (invisible jet) that “sees” where you look even through floorboards. )Roll wings level get cleared hot, drop all, low level bug out. 1 pass, haul ass. Maps and flight leads for nav. Very limited flight control assist.
Those were not the days btw. We crashed all the time, compare any services mishap rates from then till any year to include combat in this century. Single seat attack to single seat attack figures.
1991 and since changed that and it’s likely not going back. Stealth. Threat. Nav, EO Systems. Weapons. Etc. stay high and circle encouraged. Started tank plunging in th 1990s. Specific tgts. With ease by Kosovo. So low level training is not as mandatory as it was. It’s just still fun, I’m sure. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bowser:
That is freaking amazing.
I can't decide which bird is sexier - the F-35 or the F-22. I suppose it is kind of like comparing prime Elle MacPherson to prime Rachel Hunter, lol.
I gotta go with the 22, it’s just a sleeker overall design... the 35 is kinda stubby IMO
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
Indeed. I was sent to the field down at Fort Hood on an investigation. The unit (a tank outfit) was doing a road march and were strafed by several F-16s. The jets came in at (I swear) radio antenna height - about 30 feet off the ground.
Magnificent to watch. Absolutely magnificent.
Very cool, that had to have left a serious impression
Some of my favorite Army memories come from war games where you got to see all of these different aircraft doing strafing and bombing runs, then hitting the ABs and pulling crazy evasive maneuvers
As much as I love jets though, maybe the most impressive thing I ever witnessed was a trio of Apaches in silent mode come up over a hill at this units camp I was tasked out to... this hill was SO close that you’d never expect to NOT be able to hear them
They came up in a V formation just as silent as you please as I was walking to the chow line, had me dead in their sights... an incredible sight, and also incredibly unnerving “ho-lee shit, glad they’re on our side!”
They sat there for probably a full minute, and so did I, just frozen in awe... I finally rendered them a very crisp salute and went on my way [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coyote:
Yeah those old 292 antenna farms used to cause us problems. Then turning hummers into C&C vehicles with whip antennas. Arty guys were the worst mobile antenna guys, assuming you knew where larger CPs were and threat always dictating remoting antennas, so....
As much as I love the USAF, Close Air just ain’t really been their thing. A-10s killed more Marines in 1991 and early 2003 then Iraqi’s did. Court Martial of Billy Mitchell and all,.. over 20 CAS agreements with Army.
Particularly in the days of Yom Kippur lessons and CAS combined arms in that threat (1973-1991 DS). As a Marine Rifleman driving Attack Aircraft, we made it as Marine proof as a chemstick.
No Nav systems but ATC stuff, No NVDs or much night work, TLAR sights/EO stuff-“that looks about right” weapons release. Very few smart munitions. So we added snake eye fins to quit fragging ourselves, flew at 420 kts (8 miles per minutes math for Marines) and set IPs at 12 miles from targets, used 6 minute TOTs to let Arty boys mark and suppress, pushed at 4 minutes, stayed below 200 AGL using terrain, popped at 5:30, rolled inverted to acquire tgts, Mark,friendlies.
(Couldn’t see through the bottom of the jet so invert was not for show. F35 and AH-1Z have Wonder Woman helmet (invisible jet) that “sees” where you look even through floorboards. )Roll wings level get cleared hot, drop all, low level bug out. 1 pass, haul ass. Maps and flight leads for nav. Very limited flight control assist.
Those were not the days btw. We crashed all the time, compare any services mishap rates from then till any year to include combat in this century. Single seat attack to single seat attack figures.
1991 and since changed that and it’s likely not going back. Stealth. Threat. Nav, EO Systems. Weapons. Etc. stay high and circle encouraged. Started tank plunging in th 1990s. Specific tgts. With ease by Kosovo. So low level training is not as mandatory as it was. It’s just still fun, I’m sure.
Loving the firsthand knowledge, but man break some of that down in layman’s terms :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Loving the firsthand knowledge, but man break some of that down in layman’s terms :-)
Yeah, sorry.
We’ll taxi in the mousetrap, to a rolling, rolling go. Join, pen checks, and rtb are S.O.P. Don’t talk accept to say 2, Bingo, Lead you’re on fire or Mayday. Questions?
I must have come across like the above did to me on my first Fleet Squadron flight. I meant we flew low and fast to live because the threat was better than our equipment. We worked hard on developing tactics, techniques and procedures with ground maneuver folks to provide them with good support. [Reply]
We’ll taxi in the mousetrap, to a rolling, rolling go. Join, pen checks, and rtb are S.O.P. Don’t talk accept to say 2, Bingo, Lead you’re on fire or Mayday. Questions?
I must have come across like the above did to me on my first Fleet Squadron flight. I meant we flew low and fast to live because the threat was better than our equipment. We worked hard on developing tactics, techniques and procedures with ground maneuver folks to provide them with good support.
You’re clearly the real deal Mr Coyote
What’s the hottest craft you ever jockeyed? [Reply]
Originally Posted by notorious:
The Russians make the most beautiful fighters, but all of the show-off maneuvers they do are energy-killers.
Lose your energy in a dogfight and you are dead.
You’re right. Most dog fights are beyond visual range but rules of engagement usually require positive visual identification so close in still matters. True even for our Hornets shoot down over Syria.
All about energy management of your a/c and weapons kinematics. Know the Ps E-M Charts and always maintain Energy. Airspeed or Altitude covert potential into kinetic faster than the other guy.
Agility those high Alpha (angle of attack) and thrust vectoring moves are agile but are not maneuvering (displacing vertically or over the ground) necessarily.
They can be emergency maneuvers if you can bring the adversary in close enough. For example, in my time, I’ve been told of Harrier guys getting a Hornet or N-16 on them like it’s on a string, and running out of airspeed and ideas, no first hand knowledge you understand.
Then Vectoring In Forward Flight (VIFFing) during a low energy turn-scissors. Worked sometimes but usually the Hornet just took some Vertical Separation, (high yo-yo), watched the cool move and departure recovery and re- engaged on his terms. Or so I heard a few times as a former Air Combat Maneuvers Instructor. Never upon entering any merge drop the throttles below mil power. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
You’re clearly the real deal Mr Coyote
What’s the hottest craft you ever jockeyed?
Favorite= A-4M Scooter. Hottest= F/A-18 V tail bandit
Most fun=AH-1 Whiskey. most unique= AV-8B Jump jet followed by MV-22 Protor.
I worked a lot of operational testing and then got senior enough where I joyrided a lot of other folks stuff. All Navy/Marine stuff prior to the F/A-35. Old guy stuff mainly.
Subjective of course. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coyote:
Favorite= A-4M Scooter. Hottest= F/A-18 V tail bandit
Most fun=AH-1 Whiskey. most unique= AV-8B Jump jet followed by MV-22 Protor.
I worked a lot of operational testing and then got senior enough where I joyrided a lot of other folks stuff. All Navy/Marine stuff prior to the F/A-35. Old guy stuff mainly.
Subjective of course.
Cool, thanks... I’m aware of the 18 and Harrier, but will have to look up the others after work [Reply]
Originally Posted by Coyote:
You’re right. Most dog fights are beyond visual range but rules of engagement usually require positive visual identification so close in still matters. True even for our Hornets shoot down over Syria.
All about energy management of your a/c and weapons kinematics. Know the Ps E-M Charts and always maintain Energy. Airspeed or Altitude covert potential into kinetic faster than the other guy.
Agility those high Alpha (angle of attack) and thrust vectoring moves are agile but are not maneuvering (displacing vertically or over the ground) necessarily.
They can be emergency maneuvers if you can bring the adversary in close enough. For example, in my time, I’ve been told of Harrier guys getting a Hornet or N-16 on them like it’s on a string, and running out of airspeed and ideas, no first hand knowledge you understand.
Then Vectoring In Forward Flight (VIFFing) during a low energy turn-scissors. Worked sometimes but usually the Hornet just took some Vertical Separation, (high yo-yo), watched the cool move and departure recovery and re- engaged on his terms. Or so I heard a few times as a former Air Combat Maneuvers Instructor. Never upon entering any merge drop the throttles below mil power.
June 1969 - A Shau Valley - 1st Bn A Company 501 Inf, 101st Airborne. We were getting the shit kicked out of us (nothing unusual there) and called in a air strike at (whatever) coordinates. I remember 3 F4s dropping out of the sky, saw them coming in and (briefly) saw the tanks drop.
I woke up about 5 minutes later with the company Medic slapping the shit out of my face. I remember turning over to see nothing but black in front of me and that awful, terrible smell of burning flesh - about 10 feet from me. How the hell I survived that is still, all these years later, beyond me.
Man - they can mess up a lot of real estate quickly... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
June 1969 - A Shau Valley - 1st Bn A Company 501 Inf, 101st Airborne. We were getting the shit kicked out of us (nothing unusual there) and called in a air strike at (whatever) coordinates. I remember 3 F4s dropping out of the sky, saw them coming in and (briefly) saw the tanks drop.
I woke up about 5 minutes later with the company Medic slapping the shit out of my face. I remember turning over to see nothing but black in front of me and that awful, terrible smell of burning flesh - about 10 feet from me. How the hell I survived that is still, all these years later, beyond me.
Man - they can mess up a lot of real estate quickly...
Sorry that happened to a Screaming Eagle but likely beat the alternative. Glad you woke up to a good slapping.
Yeah scents pop up all the time in memories so I bet you can smell it when you typed the memory [Reply]
Originally Posted by notorious:
Old guy stuff is the coolest. Just got a book delivered about the Thud. Just finished one about the B-36.
I love reading about gear from the 50s-80s. Your mention of the A-4 perked me up. :-)
A-4s and Blacksheep Forever. Bumper stickers I’ve probably still got. VMA-214.
Have a A-4 tailhook above my bar. Neighbors have no clue what it is. Was a gift from flightline shop when I left the last squadron I flew Scooters for (VX-5 now gone/absorbed) [Reply]
