About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.
I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The Tolkein books were adapted incredibly well by Peter Jackson.
Except that Jackson changed many plot points, especially in The Two Towers.
For example:
--Eomer was never exiled from Edoras. He was imprisoned and released after Gandalf released Theoden from Saruman's spell.
--Eowyn, the women, and children, never went to Helm's Deep. They went to Dunharrow and stayed there. The folks in the Glittering Caves were the resident's of Helm's Deep, which was Erkenbrand's fortress.
--It was Erkenbrand and his 1000 foot soldiers, not Eomer that saved the day at Helm's Deep
--Helm's Dike was left out altogether
--The warg atttack and the non-sense with Aragorn falling off of a cliff NEVER happened in the book
--There were no elves other than Legolas at Helm's Deep.
--There were around 2000 men (or more) defending Helm's Deep, not 300 as shown in the movie.
These are just the big changes. Yes, it caught the spirit of the story, but that is not what I'd call a "good adaptation." I can understand leaving things out like Bombadil and the Barrow Wights, and the Scouring of the Shire...but Jackson manufactured some parts of the movie out of whole cloth (like the Dead going to Minas Tirith--Aragorn dismissed them after the Battle for Pelargir). [Reply]
Originally Posted by temper11:
This is true of so many shows/series/trilogies, etc. etc.
1) Story becomes insanely popular
2) Episodes come slower than fan theories
3) Conclusion doesn't match millions of different fan theories
4) Fans feel like the show creators raped their childhood
Originally Posted by mlyonsd:
Earlier seasons had Jon and the NK making eye contact at multiple occasions. They knew each other. We all assumed they would meet in the end.
So when the battle is about to commence and Bran says the NK will come for him AND they think killing the NK will destroy his army they decide......to let Reek defend Bran.
Yes feeling gyped is allowed.
It was Bran's decision to let Theon defend him. Everyone on the council already knew about Bran's visions. It was part of the bigger plan to lure the NK into a more vulnerable position. Unfortunately, things did not work as planned so Arya ended up saving the day. Something Bran may have seen in a vision when he gifted her the dagger. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mlyonsd:
Earlier seasons had Jon and the NK making eye contact at multiple occasions. They knew each other. We all assumed they would meet in the end.
So when the battle is about to commence and Bran says the NK will come for him AND they think killing the NK will destroy his army they decide......to let Reek defend Bran.
Yes feeling gyped is allowed.
I get feeling that way but, honestly, think it would have been lazy storytelling to have the Night King show up for a showdown 1x1 with Jon.
The Night King revealed himself because he thought he had won and it was safe.
If the defenders of Winterfell put up a masterful, classic siege defense: He doesn’t reveal himself
If Jon and his dragon (R.I.P.) are waiting in the godswood with Bran, the NK would have sent in his forces to obliterate.
The only way, really, to win the war was to let the NK think he had won.
In my mind, Bran had foreseen that. He’s playing the role of Dr. Strange in Endgame here.
We didn’t see much of the battle preparation or planning. No council discussing the plan. That leaves what they’re ultimately trying to do open to interpretation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by otherstar:
Except that Jackson changed many plot points, especially in The Two Towers.
For example:
--Eomer was never exiled from Edoras. He was imprisoned and released after Gandalf released Theoden from Saruman's spell.
--Eowyn, the women, and children, never went to Helm's Deep. They went to Dunharrow and stayed there. The folks in the Glittering Caves were the resident's of Helm's Deep, which was Erkenbrand's fortress.
--It was Erkenbrand and his 1000 foot soldiers, not Eomer that saved the day at Helm's Deep
--Helm's Dike was left out altogether
--The warg atttack and the non-sense with Aragorn falling off of a cliff NEVER happened in the book
--There were no elves other than Legolas at Helm's Deep.
--There were around 2000 men (or more) defending Helm's Deep, not 300 as shown in the movie.
These are just the big changes. Yes, it caught the spirit of the story, but that is not what I'd call a "good adaptation." I can understand leaving things out like Bombadil and the Barrow Wights, and the Scouring of the Shire...but Jackson manufactured some parts of the movie out of whole cloth (like the Dead going to Minas Tirith--Aragorn dismissed them after the Battle for Pelargir).
Even bigger plot points and points of irritation:
1. Aragorn was NEVER in doubt as to his heritage or claiming the throne. The mincing ranger reluctant to claim his birthright, and hiding from his heritage, as portrayed by Jackson DID NOT EXIST.
2. In the extended edition, the Witch King breaks Gandalf's staff and throws him off his horse. THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. The witch king did NOT do that in the books, and was NOT more powerful than Gandalf in that manner. In fact, Gandalf holds off AT LEAST four -- but more probably all nine -- at Weathertop by himself. And that was Gandalf the Grey, not Gandalf the White.
3. Frodo NEVER doubts Sam's loyalty, and does not "pick" Gollum over Sam at any point in time. Sam does want to ditch Gollum, and Frodo refuses, but that's quite a difference from what happens in the movie.
4. Frodo and Sam are more of a master and utterly loyal servant in the books. Frodo is older by quite a bit -- 50 to 30, which is barely past legal age in Hobbit years, and they are not "pals" in the way that they are in the movies, but their friendship certainly grows as they go through their trials.
5. Faramir never agrees to take Frodo and the ring to Minas Tirith in the books. Rather, he immediately lets them go, knowing the risk and consequences.
6. Minor point - Wizards don't have telekenesis, as shown in the battle between Gandalf and Saruman. I don't even much care about that, EXCEPT that it makes the "Aragorn and Frodo on the wobbling stone thing" in Moria even stupider than it already is.
7. The ents did NOT decide AGAINST fighting Saruman, and then suddenly change their mind. They do that for dramatic tension, I guess, but it's stupid in the context of the ents. They do NOT suddenly do anything, including change their minds. It sort of betrays their nature to suggest otherwise.
For the most part, I think Jackson did a great job. I do dislike some of the revisions that they made to -- I guess -- increase the dramatic tension. I think many of these revisions go against how Tolkien -- who saw things in very black/white terms -- envisioned these characters.
I dislike the -- CHANGED OUR MIND!! -- approach especially. Aragorn as to claiming his birthright. The ents as to attacking Saruman. Faramir as to releasing Frodo. It weakens the characters. Makes them stupider and/or more reluctant heroes, or even afraid to do what must be done when they know it is right. No thanks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Setsuna:
I saw that. They apparently said they were confident they would finish it in 6. :-):-):-)
It's universally agreed that this is rushed. 4 episodes more would have made a HUGE difference, even for guys like me that like these episodes but still see the problems.
Besides, HBO could have had another month of subscriptions....... [Reply]
Originally Posted by notorious:
It's universally agreed that this is rushed. 4 episodes more would have made a HUGE difference, even for guys like me that like these episodes but still see the problems.
Besides, HBO could have had another month of subscriptions.......
That's assuming the cast and crew were willing to shoot 4 more after what sounds like an exhausting experience. Or that anyone would have been excited to shoot another season. I remember How I Met Your Mother when Jason Segel flat out checked out of the last season. Another season or 2 maybe would have done the trick, but people would still claim it was rushed and too soon and point out plot holes. For as much as people think this was rushed, I don't think there's enough appreciation for why this probably needed to end sooner rather than later. [Reply]
Faramir bringing Frodo and the ring to Osgiliath is especially stupid in my mind. In the books, it's reasonably clear that Frodo and Sam's terrible march through the dead marshes and approach through Cirith Ungol results in Sauron and the Nine having no idea where they are at any point in time after he takes off the ring at Amon Hen.
As Gandalf explains, Sauron cannot conceive of the leaders of the free peoples not taking the ring up in their defense. It never occurs ot him that they are heading to Mordor to dunk the ring. In the books, the last time Frodo wears the ring is at Amon Hen, which is NorthWEST of Minas Tirith. In the movies, a Nazgul SEES him with the ring (though he doesn't wear it) at Osgiliath. That change never made any damn sense to me.
But putting them in the middle of a war zone in Osgiliath, directly EAST of Minas Tirith, where a rider SEES them, undermines the entire angle of sneaking into Mordor. He would KNOW that the ring was EAST of Minas Tirith. He would have all of his armies scouring for it, and they are already in that damn area.
Though I fully recognize only a full blown LOTR book geek could possibly care about such things. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
That's assuming the cast and crew were willing to shoot 4 more after what sounds like an exhausting experience. Or that anyone would have been excited to shoot another season. I remember How I Met Your Mother when Jason Segel flat out checked out of the last season. Another season or 2 maybe would have done the trick, but people would still claim it was rushed and too soon and point out plot holes. For as much as people think this was rushed, I don't think there's enough appreciation for why this probably needed to end sooner rather than later.
Honestly, Kit Harrington seems done to me. He’s seemed exhausted since Season 7.
However, 8 episodes in Season 7 and 7 in Season 8 with Breaking Bad’s writing staff, and they could have swung it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
It literally blows my mind that people are acting like Dany shouldn't go bad. It's literally been hinted at many times. People are ****ing whiners.
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Faramir bringing Frodo and the ring to Osgiliath is especially stupid in my mind. In the books, it's reasonably clear that Frodo and Sam's terrible march through the dead marshes and approach through Cirith Ungol results in Sauron and the Nine having no idea where they are at any point in time after he takes off the ring at Amon Hen.
As Gandalf explains, Sauron cannot conceive of the leaders of the free peoples not taking the ring up in their defense. It never occurs ot him that they are heading to Mordor to dunk the ring. In the books, the last time Frodo wears the ring is at Amon Hen, which is NorthWEST of Minas Tirith. In the movies, a Nazgul SEES him with the ring (though he doesn't wear it) at Osgiliath. That change never made any damn sense to me.
But putting them in the middle of a war zone in Osgiliath, directly EAST of Minas Tirith, where a rider SEES them, undermines the entire angle of sneaking into Mordor. He would KNOW that the ring was EAST of Minas Tirith. He would have all of his armies scouring for it, and they are already in that damn area.
Though I fully recognize only a full blown LOTR book geek could possibly care about such things.
We don’t really explore Sauron as a strategic player in Peter Jackson’s adaptation, for better or worse. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
That's assuming the cast and crew were willing to shoot 4 more after what sounds like an exhausting experience. Or that anyone would have been excited to shoot another season. I remember How I Met Your Mother when Jason Segel flat out checked out of the last season. Another season or 2 maybe would have done the trick, but people would still claim it was rushed and too soon and point out plot holes. For as much as people think this was rushed, I don't think there's enough appreciation for why this probably needed to end sooner rather than later.
I have no problem with that at all. It would be good to have 2-4 more episodes, but whatever. To me, they are rushing it to end it, and it's causing detriment to the story and the characters.
Why not have Dany decide to wipe out the city for a clear reason other than Jon not kissing her back? Yes, I know, they've been foreshadowing the Mad Queen stuff, but it would have been better if there was a "tragic misunderstanding" or something. Like say, instead of the Golden Company being quite useless, how about they retreat into the city. The citizens of the city, having been sold a bill of goods by Cersei that the invaders were coming to rape them all and their kids (they DID have Dothraki in there after all) rise up and actually fight the invaders. As a result, Jon and his forces are in the fight of their lives and start getting their asses kicked...forcing Dany to go berserk and maybe she goes too far and wipes out the city worse than she really needed to. And THAT causes her victorious allies to look at her funny. It seems all the wasted time on the battle (battles...) could have been paired down so that you see what Cersei is planning and how the city will be defended.
How about a few more minutes devoted to Euron, making him a bad guy that we actually give a shit about seeing die instead of just some wanker who nobody cares about? I understand that they didn't have time to build him up to like Bolton status, but damn, make him more than meh. Then when Dany rides in to wipe out his fleet, have him get wiped out with them in some awesome display from an armored Drogon maybe. Don't have to show them making the armor, hell, just say they are going to do it after the other dragon bit it. It could be a suggestion by Tyrion. Whatever.
How about Arya killing Cersei, who is joined by a dying Jaime and they both die in each other's arms kinda Shakesperian tradgedy style? It wouldn't have taken that much time to tweak it to make it interesting instead of nothing...
And on and on. It's just lazy writing. I have no problem with where they are going, it's just how they are getting there is lazy and empty. I find myself giving a shit only because I'm supposed to, not because of what they are showing me.
It is what it is, but there is no way anyone can say with a straight face that this is anywhere near the "best" season of GoT. I would say it's really the worst, because of how important it is and how they are rushing through it. [Reply]
Jon has never been labeled the best fighter, it was well known Robb was a much better fighter than him and not even Robb was ever labeled the best fighter in Westeros... that was Jaime, after Sir Arthur Dayne.
The Mad Queen has always been about fire and blood but their advisors talked her down. They failed her the last two seasons, she found out there was a better heir that people loved more, and she knew she had to make people fear her. [Reply]
