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Nzoner's Game Room>PFF - Ranking the NFL’s top 10 returning head coaches entering 2024
kcgreene 10:48 AM 06-26-2024
Obvious is Obvious. Andy is 1. Full List is in Spoilers.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking...-entering-2024

1. ANDY REID, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
Pairing Reid with Patrick Mahomes has been a cheat code that has led the Kansas City Chiefs to four Super Bowl appearances and three Super Bowl wins. On offense, they have ranked inside the top five in EPA per play every season from 2018-2022, even predating Mahomes’ arrival. They dropped to 12th last season, but with some significant improvements at the wide receiver position, expect them to be back inside the top five again in 2024.

Spoiler!

[Reply]
ThaVirus 01:24 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I'd at least put Harbaugh above Tomlin.

The Matt Canada thing is pretty inexcusable to me. Even a dunce like Herm recognized after his first year that a first time NFL OC like Mike Solari just wasn't working out. Yes, the guy had an incredible run as the OL coach for the best OL in a decade, and he was widely widely respected in NFL circles, but you could just tell he didn't know what he was doing. He wasn't putting guys in positions to succeed. And they didn't seem to develop and improve.

And when you're a defense-minded head coach, goddamn you better hire a good (or at least experienced) OC who knows what he's doing, otherwise the whole thing caves in. Yeah, I know they had QB problems, but when you have those problems, you get the OL going and you at least learn how to run the ball effectively.

That doesn't mean Tomlin is a terrible coach, but at least Harbaugh and Roman could oversee a pretty successful transition from a statue like Flacco to a runaround guy like Lamar midseason with some pretty nice returns early in the process. Tomlin's insistence on staying the course with his guys even when shit obviously isn't working puts him down a rung.
My gut says Harbaugh is a bit better than Tomlin as well but I don’t think there’s a chasm there. Tomlin’s win percentage is better in the regular season, Harbaugh’s is better in the postseason. Both have one SB win, though Tomlin has been twice.

Someone in the other thread did make a good point. Did Harbaugh stunt Lamar’s growth by tailoring the offense around his athleticism for so long?
[Reply]
staylor26 02:27 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
My gut says Harbaugh is a bit better than Tomlin as well but I don’t think there’s a chasm there. Tomlin’s win percentage is better in the regular season, Harbaugh’s is better in the postseason. Both have one SB win, though Tomlin has been twice.

Someone in the other thread did make a good point. Did Harbaugh stunt Lamar’s growth by tailoring the offense around his athleticism for so long?
:-) :-) :-)
[Reply]
Jerm 02:29 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Am I insane, or is Dan Campbell overrated.

His players love him, but his specialty is supposed to be defense and they've been very disappointing there despite having top tier players.

Their offense has been what's made them lethal in the past year or two, and that's on Ben Johnson, who had HC opportunities this offseason that he proactively turned down.

Edit: Actually it seems he's a more offensive-minded guy, so disregard.

I wonder how the Lions will perform if/when Ben Johnson moves on.
He completely fucked them with his idiotic decisions in the NFC Championship game...

I just feel like he'll always be that guy and cost them in high pressure games.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:30 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
My gut says Harbaugh is a bit better than Tomlin as well but I don’t think there’s a chasm there. Tomlin’s win percentage is better in the regular season, Harbaugh’s is better in the postseason. Both have one SB win, though Tomlin has been twice.

Someone in the other thread did make a good point. Did Harbaugh stunt Lamar’s growth by tailoring the offense around his athleticism for so long?
The Savant?

No chance in hell. There's no stunting a guy with those kind of Gigabytes, dude.
[Reply]
staylor26 02:33 PM 06-27-2024
What exactly are you supposed to do with a RB at QB?

Try to make him a pocket passer?

Or let him do what he does best?

If he did what he does best in the AFCCG instead of trying to win from the pocket, we might've lost. It's VERY simple.
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New World Order 02:35 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by staylor26:
What exactly are you supposed to do with a RB at QB?

Try to make him a pocket passer?

Or let him do what he does best?

If he did what he does best in the AFCCG instead of trying to win from the pocket, we might've lost. It's VERY simple.
Easy. That's what you do in College Football 25 for Playstation.

Put the 99 speed guy at QB and just run the option to death.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:37 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by staylor26:
What exactly are you supposed to do with a RB at QB?

Try to make him a pocket passer?

Or let him do what he does best?

If he did what he does best in the AFCCG instead of trying to win from the pocket, we might've lost. It's VERY simple.
Story goes that Spags was essentially daring Jackson to run.

If so, that might actually explain how some of those coverages got broken. Jackson had some BIG plays on the table to make with his arm and he just didn't make 'em.

And if Spags is out there putting on looks that suggest to Jackson that he's going to close off escape lanes, well you can't really expect Jackson to continue looking for them as the game progresses; he's had to put himself in a different mindset.

In real time I was absolutely convinced that Jackson just vapor-locked and screwed them. As I read/saw more, however, I think Spags simply did what he can do on occasion (and Belichick was a master of) and got him out of a comfort zone. And once that happened, even those plays that looked available for Lamar's legs were tendency breakers and not something that Jackson had the feel to look for at that point of the game.
[Reply]
staylor26 02:40 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Story goes that Spags was essentially daring Jackson to run.

If so, that might actually explain how some of those coverages got broken. Jackson had some BIG plays on the table to make with his arm and he just didn't make 'em.

And if Spags is out there putting on looks that suggest to Jackson that he's going to close off escape lanes, well you can't really expect Jackson to continue looking for them as the game progresses; he's had to put himself in a different mindset.

In real time I was absolutely convinced that Jackson just vapor-locked and screwed them. As I read/saw more, however, I think Spags simply did what he can do on occasion (and Belichick was a master of) and got him out of a comfort zone. And once that happened, even those plays that looked available for Lamar's legs were tendency breakers and not something that Jackson had the feel to look for at that point of the game.
I just find it hard to beleive that there weren't more opportunities to use his legs in there somewhere, but overall you're probably right.

But when that's how it's going in year 6, I think it's safe to say that Lamar has been maxed out as a passer.

This idea that Harbaugh and the OCs have stunted his growth is just hilarious.
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ThaVirus 07:27 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by staylor26:
What exactly are you supposed to do with a RB at QB?

Try to make him a pocket passer? .
Yes, actually. The prevailing narrative is that, in order to win a Super Bowl your QB will have to make big time throws from inside the pocket.

I think there’s a real possibility that six years of allowing the QB to rely on athleticism and run-heavy game plans has held back his progression.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 07:39 PM 06-27-2024
You'd have more success making Lamar Jackson a wide receiver than you would a pocket passer.

He simply doesn't have the biomechanics for it. It would go about as well as trying to make Tebow one.

Nothing Harbaugh did held Jackson back. He got the absolute most out of the guy that anyone possibly could.
[Reply]
RealSNR 08:59 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Yes, actually. The prevailing narrative is that, in order to win a Super Bowl your QB will have to make big time throws from inside the pocket.

I think there’s a real possibility that six years of allowing the QB to rely on athleticism and run-heavy game plans has held back his progression.
That's who he is. That's what he was going to be. This isn't a case like Michael Vick where he had such a live rocket arm and was capable of hitting any spot on the field. Jackson doesn't exactly have a noodle arm, but he doesn't trust it as much as he could, and it doesn't help either that the guy just plain doesn't have it upstairs, either.
[Reply]
staylor26 09:09 PM 06-27-2024
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Yes, actually. The prevailing narrative is that, in order to win a Super Bowl your QB will have to make big time throws from inside the pocket.

I think there’s a real possibility that six years of allowing the QB to rely on athleticism and run-heavy game plans has held back his progression.
:-) :-) :-)

You're so clueless. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He doesn't have the tools or the brains to be a pocket passer. You're delusional if you think otherwise.

The guy is a 2 time MVP and was really close to being in a fucking SB last year. Considering how bad he is at actually playing QB, that's a miracle. It has worked only because they've played to his strengths and got the absolute most out of him. This might be your most reeruned take ever.
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Megatron96 09:10 PM 06-27-2024
Not a fan of Tomlin, but I can see why they put him as high as they did. But just based on what Stefanski did last season (and everyone knows I'm not a big fan of Stefanski either) he really should be ranked above Tomlin at this point.


At this point, I have to admit that Dan Campbell is a pretty good coach, but he's probably ranked a little too high as well. Going for 4th and long from behind his own 40-yd line is just dumb as hell, especially when his team was still well within striking distance. And he did the same thing earlier in the season, with the same results. I can't see him ranked where he is either.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 07:10 AM 06-28-2024
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Am I insane, or is Dan Campbell overrated.

His players love him, but his specialty is supposed to be defense and they've been very disappointing there despite having top tier players.

Their offense has been what's made them lethal in the past year or two, and that's on Ben Johnson, who had HC opportunities this offseason that he proactively turned down.

Edit: Actually it seems he's a more offensive-minded guy, so disregard.

I wonder how the Lions will perform if/when Ben Johnson moves on.
He was a TE. Why would his specialty be defense?
[Reply]
ThaVirus 08:23 AM 06-28-2024
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
That's who he is. That's what he was going to be. This isn't a case like Michael Vick where he had such a live rocket arm and was capable of hitting any spot on the field. Jackson doesn't exactly have a noodle arm, but he doesn't trust it as much as he could, and it doesn't help either that the guy just plain doesn't have it upstairs, either.
I wonder if Harbaugh and the GM are on the same page then. Taking a QB everyone knows is a project at #32 isn’t an issue, but allowing him to lean on his crutch in a tailor made offense and then extending him long-term going into his sixth season while knowing he will never develop is a head scratcher.

.. Unless you lean on the business angle. Maybe they trusted that Lamar was a good enough football player to keep them employed for a few more years knowing that he’ll win games but never be good enough to win them a trophy.
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