Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy! [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The reasoning is crap because it's the kind of nebulous bullshit you hear from talking heads when they don't have a real argument to make so they're trying to will one into existence.
The CBS author says "Hey, maybe he is the best..." and then crickets. He suggested that Palmer should be making a different argument but damn sure never attempted to establish what that argument might be.
Because the only way to argue this point is to, as they say, baffle you with bullshit. Make an argument so gray and so fluid that you can't really directly attack it. Don't say "Well he's more accurate" because that can be addressed...and dismissed. Or that he's more mobile. Or has a stronger arm. Or that he's more accomplished. You can't say any of that because it's leading with your chin.
But you can say nonsense like "He runs the plays" or "He processes better" because there's not a simple statistical argument that you can be beat over the head with.
Trust me - Carson stood in front of a mirror for a few days practicing that little speech and has a trashcan full of crumpled up efforts at making precisely the kind of 'good' arguments that CBS Sports says he should make.
The problem is - he can't make 'em. They flat don't exist.
There is no discussion here - Patrick Mahomes is the best QB in football and anyone that says otherwise is just selling you something.
A total of zero people actually believe Burrow "processes better" than Pat. Zero. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
You underestimate the stupidity of the masses.
We had multiple users on this website saying Joe "alpha'd" Patrick and Patrick "wasn't the same" after losing to Burrow last year all the way up to this year's AFCCG [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
A total of zero people actually believe Burrow "processes better" than Pat. Zero.
Oh, there are plenty of people who believe that. DJ nailed it on the head.
Does your QB take a lot of sacks? Well, it's because he's a pocket passer, you see, and that means he processes the field better.
Reminds me of the dingus morons who still argue that Kittle is a better TE than Kelce because of his blocking. When they bring it up, they usually imply that because Kelce lines up all over the formation more often than Kittle, he's incapable or a weak blocker. That's false as fuck. Kelce is probably a top 10 blocker as a TE. He just does it less often directly off the line of scrimmage.
It's even worse in the case of Burrow because there is zero fucking way Burrow processes better than Mahomes. At least you can argue that Kittle actually is a better blocker than Kelce, but the problem is people act like the blocking is the great equalizer. It's not. It's fucking blocking. You go ahead and take the slightly better blocker. I'll take the guy who's totally fucking unguardable. And I didn't even bring up injuries.
Mahomes figured out the Eagles were coming on a 0 blitz so quickly that he beat Andy to the punch to call timeout when the formation was incorrect on the Skyy Moore TD. That's in spite of the Eagles running 0 blitzes the least often in the NFL that season. Mahomes knew the formation was wrong, QUICKLY processed what the coverage was going to be, and went for it anyway in a matter of seconds.
"Well, Burrow could totally do that, too!" Oh? I really fucking doubt that. [Reply]
Reminds me of the dingus morons who still argue that Kittle is a better TE than Kelce because of his blocking. When they bring it up, they usually imply that because Kelce lines up all over the formation more often than Kittle, he's incapable or a weak blocker. That's false as ****. Kelce is probably a top 10 blocker as a TE. He just does it less often directly off the line of scrimmage.
Random tangent, but there were morons on reddit arguing that Shanny keeping Kittle in as a blocker on Jimmy G's failed game winning drive in Super Bowl 54 was "the right move, even though it didn't work" because of how good of a blocker he was. And shit, Shanny Jr. STILL does not seem to realize that it benefits his opponent the most when he removes Kittle as a downfield option in pivotal moments because he's sUcH a GoOD bLoCkeR so his QB instead can instead heave it to Kendrick Bourne and Jauan Jennings. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Oh, there are plenty of people who believe that. DJ nailed it on the head.
Does your QB take a lot of sacks? Well, it's because he's a pocket passer, you see, and that means he processes the field better.
Reminds me of the dingus morons who still argue that Kittle is a better TE than Kelce because of his blocking. When they bring it up, they usually imply that because Kelce lines up all over the formation more often than Kittle, he's incapable or a weak blocker. That's false as ****. Kelce is probably a top 10 blocker as a TE. He just does it less often directly off the line of scrimmage.
It's even worse in the case of Burrow because there is zero ****ing way Burrow processes better than Mahomes. At least you can argue that Kittle actually is a better blocker than Kelce, but the problem is people act like the blocking is the great equalizer. It's not. It's ****ing blocking. You go ahead and take the slightly better blocker. I'll take the guy who's totally ****ing unguardable. And I didn't even bring up injuries.
Mahomes figured out the Eagles were coming on a 0 blitz so quickly that he beat Andy to the punch to call timeout when the formation was incorrect on the Skyy Moore TD. That's in spite of the Eagles running 0 blitzes the least often in the NFL that season. Mahomes knew the formation was wrong, QUICKLY processed what the coverage was going to be, and went for it anyway in a matter of seconds.
"Well, Burrow could totally do that, too!" Oh? I really ****ing doubt that.
Precisely. Which why I'll again state that I don't think anyone really believes it. That second half of the Super Bowl was brilliant, made even more so given his lack of two working legs. Dude was processing on another level given that he was playing at such a physical disadvantage. It's like in an old sci fi movie when a thruster goes down so they reallocate those resources to other areas. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
A total of zero people actually believe Burrow "processes better" than Pat. Zero.
Well to some people, he looks like he processes better, if you know what I mean…
Pat’s football intelligence has often been underrated. Hilarious considering he’s the top passer in the NFL since 2018, and the leagues best and most successful player since then. Only Brady ties him in ring count, yet Brady doesn’t have the MVPs to go with it. Rodgers ties him in MVPs, but doesn’t even have a SB appearance
I’ve never in my life seen a clear #1 QB over the whole NFL like this. Maybe Brady in 2017, but that was short lived because of the emergence of Mahomes in 2018 [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Hell, how about "Allen has nothing around him!!!"
But more on Burrow. Want to blame the OL issues for Burrow's last loss? Okay. Then why is he so pedestrian in the regular season? He's got enough riches on offense to make Solomon blush, and the guy is never even ****ing close to MVP numbers, nor does he put his team in a position to challenge for most wins in the conference.
Burrow reminds me of Brady only without the ****ing horseshoe up his ass.
He has the horseshoe up his ass, just doesn’t take advantage and win rings like Brady did when he got golden opportunities
Originally Posted by tredadda:
What I am always fascinated by is how Mahomes' weapons were viewed as a liability and the reason for his success, yet no other QB has that held against them. Burrow has two #1 WRs and one high #2. Yet that is never held against Burrow.
Burrow is good no doubt. He is on a HOF path. If he retired today he would not be in the HOF.
Mahomes is better and is on a Greatest to Ever Play The Position path. He could retire today and very likely be a HOFer if not a first ballot HOFer.
Mahomes is a threat to the old guard. He plays a style very different than most of the old school QBs and doing it better than they did with their style. That is unnerving because he's doing things everyone was taught to NOT do and he is paving the way for a new style of QB coming up. Kids are growing up to be the next Mahomes, not the next Carson Palmer. Burrow is the last of a dying breed of the pure pocket passer.
What’s even crazier to me is that Mahomes, even at peak weapon capacity, didn’t have weapons like Higgins and Chase, who you could just toss it up to and be bailed out by.
“Fuck it, Tyreek down there somewhere” is the closest thing to that, and that doesn’t involve heaving or a covered guy and letting him climb the ladder to make a play. It was just heaving the ball so far into open space Hill was the only guy who could get there.
It’s easy to “trust your receivers to get open” when they commit offensive PI on basically every play (Chase) and can high-point like he and Higgins can. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
What’s even crazier to me is that Mahomes, even at peak weapon capacity, didn’t have weapons like Higgins and Chase, who you could just toss it up to and be bailed out by.
“**** it, Tyreek down there somewhere” is the closest thing to that, and that doesn’t involve heaving or a covered guy and letting him climb the ladder to make a play. It was just heaving the ball so far into open space Hill was the only guy who could get there.
It’s easy to “trust your receivers to get open” when they commit offensive PI on basically every play (Chase) and can high-point like he and Higgins can.
“There is no argument, he is the best “ Sean Payton
Pre snap he is one of the best , I think Manning was the best ever but post snap on the fly adjustments he is the best I have ever seen his “feel” for the game is what makes him indefensible.
What he does better than anyone can’t be coached and can’t be dumbed down for average players to learn , it is why guys like Gretzky where horrible coaches nobody could see/understand the game at that same level it’s like he was trying to teach reeruns chess. There might not be many players ever than even understand what make Pat so great let alone the ****ing retards in the media who never played. [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
What I am always fascinated by is how Mahomes' weapons were viewed as a liability and the reason for his success, yet no other QB has that held against them. Burrow has two #1 WRs and one high #2. Yet that is never held against Burrow.
Burrow is good no doubt. He is on a HOF path. If he retired today he would not be in the HOF.
Mahomes is better and is on a Greatest to Ever Play The Position path. He could retire today and very likely be a HOFer if not a first ballot HOFer.
Mahomes is a threat to the old guard. He plays a style very different than most of the old school QBs and doing it better than they did with their style. That is unnerving because he's doing things everyone was taught to NOT do and he is paving the way for a new style of QB coming up. Kids are growing up to be the next Mahomes, not the next Carson Palmer. Burrow is the last of a dying breed of the pure pocket passer.
You shut your filthy whore mouth.
I agree with your take though. [Reply]
We had multiple users on this website saying Joe "alpha'd" Patrick and Patrick "wasn't the same" after losing to Burrow last year all the way up to this year's AFCCG
Ohhh yeah we sure did.
That dipshit comochiefsfan was leading the charge shitting all over Pat, who else?? [Reply]
I haven't seen this angle discussed really so I thought I would repeat a thought about Palmer's comments here...
The other thing is that in talking about Burrow, he didn’t even try to hide the “system QB” stuff. He gave credit to Burrow (and criticized Mahomes implicitly) for playing within the offense and not improvising. The thing is, we as long term fans aren’t stupid. The whole “system” argument is used to prop up guys that aren’t good enough to carry their team to a championship. If anything, he’s actually denigrating Burrow and apparently doesn’t realize it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I haven't seen this angle discussed really so I thought I would repeat a thought about Palmer's comments here...
The other thing is that in talking about Burrow, he didn’t even try to hide the “system QB” stuff. He gave credit to Burrow (and criticized Mahomes implicitly) for playing within the offense and not improvising. The thing is, we as long term fans aren’t stupid. The whole “system” argument is used to prop up guys that aren’t good enough to carry their team to a championship. If anything, he’s actually denigrating Burrow and apparently doesn’t realize it.
Well, I mean, Montana was a system QB.
It's just different is all. There are the guys who are amazing within the offense, like Montana, or Brady. Then there are guys who are also freak athletes, like Favre, Young, Rodgers, and Mahomes.
It's just different. Some guys, especially coaches, might prefer the 'system' guy, because they want repeatable, explainable results. This is why a Jimmy Johnson would rather have a Herbert than a Mahomes.
