Originally Posted by -King-:
Then fuck it, give the ball to Sherman.
Fwiw, I'm not in favor of keeping Tremon smith if the only thing he can do well is return kicks.
I just don't see any way Hyde accepts being the #3 back who only sees short yardage action when he can go be a #2 or better back on a lot of other teams.
Dude signed a contract. And if he can't beat out a late 5th round pick for the #2 spot, exactly what justification does he have for believing that he'd be a #2 back on a lot of teams? Dude damn sure wouldn't be 'or better' anywhere - he's not a starting caliber back anywhere. Even the bucs have a better situation with Peyton Barber and that cat sucks.
You're simultaneously overvaluing him (he won't settle for being a backup) and undervaluing him (we don't need a 'heavy' back). If he can truly be a '#2 or better back on a lot of other teams' then why the hell wouldn't we want to keep him here?
If he ends up a #3 back for short yardage use who's in line for the heavy workload if the starter goes down, that's probably about where he should be. He's being paid a little more than I'd like for that gig so if Williams can unseat him, that's fine - I just don't know why we should expect that he will, Williams hasn't been all that great.
As for Sherman, he's a break glass in an emergency guy, IMO - a fun novelty but not someone you should be giving a key short yardage carry to unless it's a misdirection sort of handoff to the up-back. Hyde's a better runner than Sherman by a fair amount. And if (when) Damien Williams misses a game or two, I still don't know that you want Thompson just taking the lead role and you damn sure shouldn't have Sherman doing it. So you'll be awfully glad to have Hyde then even if it's just to take 12-14 carries and keep Thompson fresh for his 8-10 touches. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Here's the problem with the 'we don't need a power back' approach:
It's not going to be wrong 80% of the time. And if you're extremely lucky it may not be wrong at all for a season. But let's not forget where this team plays, lads.
This ain't Lubbock - the Air Raid is gonna have some moments in November when the field is soft and the air is cold where it's just not the way to go in short yardage. When you're trying to spread a team out inside the 5 and Thompson goes to plant that foot to turn upfield and the turf fails, what's your answer?
No, when it's 72 degrees and sunny, there's no real need for Carlos Hyde. But fellas, in all likelihood we're not playing in any domes in the playoffs. We're probably not playing down south in the playoffs. We're going to have probably 4-6 critical games played in less than stellar conditions and in those conditions, in a short yardage situation, you just want to be able to push the other guys out of the way.
May turn out we don't need him, but I'd rather have him and not need him than need him and not have him. Especially when the cost is Tremon !@#$ing Smith, who's demonstrated no ability to play CB, no ability to play RB and who's only strength is the area of the game that the NFL is desperately trying to phase out.
If Darrell Williams can take his job and save us some money - okay, I can live with that. But I'm not comfortable with a stable of RBs who top out at 210 lbs. Imma need a 225-235 lb dude on this roster who I can trust to give the ball if the field has turned to shit and I just need someone to slam into a pile.
Nice post DJLN, I find myself thinking the same thing. Only I’m not sold on any of our RBs as a real power back. With Hunt and Ware gone we have no one to set a physical tone on offense. None of our current offensive guys are going to go out and look for a CB or safety to crush when they get to the second level. We are a total finesse team right now and that usually doesn’t go well come December and January.
I’m kind of thinking we cut Hyde and Darrel in favor of some other team’s power back that gets cut as teams go to 53 man rosters. I just don’t think Hyde or Darrel have shown enough to really cut it for us. We may not do that, but I think it’ll come back to bite us at some point if we don’t get someone who can run with an attitude. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
That’s true, but Hyde is not good. He’s an old school bruiser that has not performed to the level of other backs in other places he’s been.
I think Darrel Williams will win that job. I also think we have other enforcers with the ability to handle short yardage situations.
Sherman obviously is an option, but Blake Bell is really good at short yardage as well. That’s basically what he did in college.
Works for me. I don't think he will because I don't think Darrel is very good, but if the coaching staff disagrees - so be it.
But man, I'm not looking to cut corners on a short yardage back and start handing off to our FB our our #2 TE because we felt the need to keep a scrub like Tremon Smith. That's my key point here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
When we had alex or whoever at qb, the trick plays with someone else throwing the ball were cool
Now if someone is throwing the ball for the chiefs, it needs to be the mvp qb
Well I'm not saying Brees is better than Mahomes, still he was among the possible MVP's last season, and that didn't keep the Saints from using Taysom Hill.
I still think that having two QB's on the field occasionally, one of them being Mahomes and another one being Lovett - who has much better arm than Hill and can still run and receive - would cause some major headaches to any defense.
Makes no sense to me trying to convert a quarterback into an NFL tightend, and the shoulder injury he suffered is there to prove this IMHO.
Anyway if he's been put on IR I don't think this really matters much at this point. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Dude signed a contract. And if he can't beat out a late 5th round pick for the #2 spot, exactly what justification does he have for believing that he'd be a #2 back on a lot of teams? Dude damn sure wouldn't be 'or better' anywhere - he's not a starting caliber back anywhere. Even the bucs have a better situation with Peyton Barber and that cat sucks.
You're simultaneously overvaluing him (he won't settle for being a backup) and undervaluing him (we don't need a 'heavy' back). If he can truly be a '#2 or better back on a lot of other teams' then why the hell wouldn't we want to keep him here?
If he ends up a #3 back for short yardage use who's in line for the heavy workload if the starter goes down, that's probably about where he should be. He's being paid a little more than I'd like for that gig so if Williams can unseat him, that's fine - I just don't know why we should expect that he will, Williams hasn't been all that great.
As for Sherman, he's a break glass in an emergency guy, IMO - a fun novelty but not someone you should be giving a key short yardage carry to unless it's a misdirection sort of handoff to the up-back. Hyde's a better runner than Sherman by a fair amount. And if (when) Damien Williams misses a game or two, I still don't know that you want Thompson just taking the lead role and you damn sure shouldn't have Sherman doing it. So you'll be awfully glad to have Hyde then even if it's just to take 12-14 carries and keep Thompson fresh for his 8-10 touches.
I agree with most all of this, but Reid has no issue playing a rookie as his starter at RB. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
That’s true, but Hyde is not good. He’s an old school bruiser that has not performed to the level of other backs in other places he’s been.
I think Darrel Williams will win that job. I also think we have other enforcers with the ability to handle short yardage situations.
Sherman obviously is an option, but Blake Bell is really good at short yardage as well. That’s basically what he did in college.
Williams is not winning anything, doubt he may even be the starter at this point.
As far as Sherman, no one needs a fullback on the field so the defense adjusts.
We need someone who can run and break tackles as well as receive ON ANY PLAY, and not only on short yardage situations.
Hell, Darwin Thompson, however small and not a power back is probably better than Williams once he breaks thru the primary. He sure has some interesting stats on YDS after contact and showed some of that against the Bengals too.
Mahomes is a generational talent, but a one dimensional offense will not help him any.
Originally Posted by prhom:
Nice post DJLN, I find myself thinking the same thing. Only I’m not sold on any of our RBs as a real power back. With Hunt and Ware gone we have no one to set a physical tone on offense. None of our current offensive guys are going to go out and look for a CB or safety to crush when they get to the second level. We are a total finesse team right now and that usually doesn’t go well come December and January.
I’m kind of thinking we cut Hyde and Darrel in favor of some other team’s power back that gets cut as teams go to 53 man rosters. I just don’t think Hyde or Darrel have shown enough to really cut it for us. We may not do that, but I think it’ll come back to bite us at some point if we don’t get someone who can run with an attitude.
Totally agree. Wonder where all the folks who've been claiming D. Williams is as good as K. Hunt ended up. [Reply]
Originally Posted by IUsedToBeATightEnd:
Totally agree. Wonder where all the folks who've been claiming D. Williams is as good as K. Hunt ended up.
Damien was good for us down the stretch, and I’m not going to be overly harsh on him. I think he’s an asset to the team and happy he’s a Chief. He will get production and it may be on par with what Hunt was providing in terms of yards and points. He’s just not the kind of guy who is going to get tough yards. Hunt seemed to relish grinding out gritty runs. I can’t recall how many times I saw Damien run into someone downfield completely upright. Hunt would have made that guy regret trying to tackle him.
I know Hunt is gone and get why, but we haven’t replaced that attitude and I wish we had. I thought we might draft someone like that. Maybe next year?? [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Why can’t thompson do that? I get he’s smaller but he seems to always fall forward
You can't really be serious here.
Yes, he's smaller. That's why Thompson can't do that. You know how 'force' is calculated right? The sheer mass component genuinely does matter when you're trying to do something with a paucity of lateral movement.
And funnier still is that you've seen him carry the ball 5 times in a pre-season game and now he's 'always' falling forward.
Well at least it's good to know you'll overreact to EVERYTHING. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You can't really be serious here.
Yes, he's smaller. That's why Thompson can't do that. You know how 'force' is calculated right? The sheer mass component genuinely does matter when you're trying to do something with a paucity of lateral movement.
And funnier still is that you've seen him carry the ball 5 times in a pre-season game and now he's 'always' falling forward.
Well at least it's good to know you'll overreact to EVERYTHING.
I’m looking back at the college film for one
Yeah like I said he’s smaller, but iirc, It’s more than mass that factors into force.
It’s been a while since I was in physics but to be fair I am a doctor so I’m usually right.
Hyde may be bigger but being slower to the hole would hurry [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
I agree with most all of this, but Reid has no issue playing a rookie as his starter at RB.
I do not think Hyde is going to be in line for every down usage. Even if Damien goes out with a injury. He is strictly between the tackles type back and really is not a good receiver out of the back field. So I do not think that will fit our offense, which is built on speed and stretching defenses. So yeah I think the staff would love one of the young guys to show they can handle the offense.
Only way Hyde makes the team is a short yardage power back. If any of our other backs come close to matching him in such a capacity, he will be expendable. Simply because the other backs will be more versatile in special teams. [Reply]
Originally Posted by prhom:
Damien was good for us down the stretch, and I’m not going to be overly harsh on him. I think he’s an asset to the team and happy he’s a Chief. He will get production and it may be on par with what Hunt was providing in terms of yards and points. He’s just not the kind of guy who is going to get tough yards. Hunt seemed to relish grinding out gritty runs. I can’t recall how many times I saw Damien run into someone downfield completely upright. Hunt would have made that guy regret trying to tackle him.
I know Hunt is gone and get why, but we haven’t replaced that attitude and I wish we had. I thought we might draft someone like that. Maybe next year??
I'm didn't mean to be harsh on Damien. I'm being harsh on those who fail to grasp the difference between the two and HOW those productions were made.
I'm confident about Thompson as long as he can put on some mass without loosing much speed - which Tyreek manage to do so it may happen.
@ DJ's left nut, "force" (such as inertia/momentum) is the result of speed X mass, which is what makes me hope in Thompson.
The abilility to change direction abruptly and force tackles has more to do with responsiveness, fiber muscle quality and center of gravity anyway, besides being a natural attitude of course, and one which is hardly acquired through practice.
If it was just a matter of weight everyone would use tackles at running backs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I’m looking back at the college film for one
Yeah like I said he’s smaller, but iirc, It’s more than mass that factors into force.
It’s been a while since I was in physics but to be fair I am a doctor so I’m usually right.
Hyde may be bigger but being slower to the hole would hurry
But Hyde isn't slow to the hole; that's just the product of being a veteran RB. Now if he ends up running tentative then he'll get cut. But he's never been that guy before - he's always been willing to drive at the hole once he has the ball.
He's slow past it, sure - but that's not the role we're talking about here. He's no sort of breakaway threat.
But again, we're talking about a very limited, specialized niche here. And if you need that guy, you need that guy and taking a dude that weighs less than 200 lbs and putting him into that role will A) fail and B) get him ground into dust in all likelihood.
Like I said - if you're lucky is just doesn't matter. If I'm the Saints I have no use for a power back; we'll be playing in Domes and down south almost every week. Gimme my speed. But that's not the Chiefs. The Chiefs could end up in a situation where they absolutely need a guy who's not gonna dance, who's not gonna need to get small and find a crevice so he can 'fall forward'.
They may need a guy that can just run as hard as he can where the hole is supposed to open and if that hole doesn't open he just just hit the motherfucker in front of him hard enough to move that pile forward. And if that's the case, Darwin Thompson is not gonna get that job done. [Reply]