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Nzoner's Game Room>*** Official 2017 Royals Repository ***
Chiefspants 10:55 AM 04-05-2017
Chiefsplanet’s (Proposed) 2017 Season Title: One Last Ride

Midish-Season Update (Royals 51-47, 2nd Wild Card, 1.5 GB of ALC):

We're halfway through 2017, and fittingly to the Chiefsplanet's 2017 Season Title, the Royals are all-in on what will likely be one final run with the current core. While many are worried the Royals will take a 2004 style tumble after this year, the farm system is hardly the barren wasteland it was during the Baird years. To see what's in the pipeline and what we have to look forward to, check out this exceptional list and analysis that Duncan put together of our system.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview#gid=0

While I had the honor of starting this thread this year, Duncan will always have a VIP pass to this OP, and can add more content at any time.

2017's Burning Questions Revisited:

1. What is the threshold between being “buyers” and “sellers” at the deadline?

We're buyers, baby.

In April, I argued that it would be a wise strategy for us to sell if we were 5 GB or worse, but that Dayton would likely add supplemental pieces for us to load up for another run if we were 1-2 GB. On July 24th, the Royals found themselves in sole possession of the 2nd wild card spot and 1.5 games back of the division. In April I said the Royals might pull the trigger on someone like Alex Cobb and resign Luke Hochevar, but since the Rays are also buyers and Luke's shoulder hasn't rebounded, this prediction hasn't come to fruition. Luckily, Dayton Moore again proved much more adept and creative than me by adding Trevor Cahill (good call, Duncan), Brandon Maurer and Ryan Buchter in a single trade. Giving us a solid starter to compete in 2017, and two relievers whom we will control through 2019 and 2021, respectively, keeping Moore's new vision through 2019-2020 intact. Moore has hinted that the Royals will continue to pursue the right deals if they're there, so the fun may not be over just yet. While we may not have the bullets to pull in a "star" like Cueto or Zo, Moore's adeptness may yet again net us what we need for another run in October.

2. Can Gordo and Moose bounce back to 2015 levels?

In April I asked if Gordo could at least set the table at a 265/325/425 clip and if Moose could deliver damage around a 265/335/500 clip for an entire year. This season Mr. Moustakas has been the prospect that was promised, delivering at a 277/307/568 clip as of this update. Gordo, on the other hand, has put up an unbelievably abysmal line thus far. But, if there is a silver lining, it's that Gordo has performed at a 246/311/432 line since June 1st, and if he can continue to perform near that mark, he will be more than a valuable asset at the bottom of the lineup while he continues to provide the best LF defense in the league.

3. Can Ned Yost manage a bullpen?

In April, I felt that despite the poor start, Royals bullpen would ultimately be "solid" this year, but the question was whether "solid" was good enough for Ned. I argued that the Royals needed Soria to bounce back and that Ned would need to start being strategic in his L/L and R/R matchups. While Ned has still made at times baffling and frustrating decisions with his starters (such as allowing Travis Wood to try to "get the win" and still insisting on sending Hammel out for the 6th, he's mostly done a good job).

MASH: Minor/Moylan - Alexander - Soria - Herrera (Credit to C3HIEF3S for the origins of the phrase) have cemented into reliable pieces, and now that Herrera is showing signs of stabilizing, our dumping of Wood, our call up Flynn, and the acquisition of Buchter and Maurer, the Royals have the potential to enter October with one of the best and deepest bullpens in the postseason.

4. Will the Royals find a boost from an unexpected X-Factor to lift them to contention?

Cool-Whit, Boni, Mike ****ing Minor, and Alexander have come up huge thus far. Cool Whit is, incredibly, is second on the team in WAR and has more than replaced Zo's presence on the team. They, like the X-Factors on the 2014-2015 teams, have been critical cogs as we've raced back to contention, while Cool-Whit and Boni also have provided a rosier outlook for this team's future. It's worth noting that Salvador Perez and Jason Vargas has been beasts on offense and the mound (along with Sal providing his customary defensive excellence), but I am still a bit wary of Salvy's annual Yost assisted offensive drought as the team moves into August, along with Vargy regressing to his averages.

5. Can Jorge Soler and Brandon Moss be productive contributors in Kauffman’s dimensions?

Ouch, no, but the Royals shift to power-hitting in the juiced ball era looks like one that will pay off. Thankfully, Moss is showing signs of entering his seasonal hot streak where he becomes corn-fed Jesus for a month, and we'll need him hot to keep up with Cleveland down the stretch. While Jorge has been painful to watch in the majors, his scorching performance in AAA should give one a bright hope for the future. While some may disagree, I offer Moose, Hos, Gordo, and Duffy's struggles as exhibit A for why it is far too early to give up on Soler's potential.

Bonus Question - Is Raul Mondesi truly ready to be an everyday player?

Ha! Not even close. However, like Soler, his progress in AAA is incredibly encouraging. With ceilings like Lindor and floors being Esky being thrown out there, it's hard not to be excited about his future.

The Picture Forward

There are many reasons to be excited, and not only for 2017. The Royals emergence of Cool Whit, Bonifacio, and Scott Alexander, and the fact that we have pieces like Salvador Perez, Danny Duffy, Kelvin Herrera, Jorge Soler, Ryan Buchter, Brandon Maurer Cheslor Cuthbert, and Raul Mondesi until at least 2019 should leave one feeling pretty optimistic. Re-up Moose or Hos (and heck, re-sign Dyson while we're at it), and suddenly this team looks very much like one that could compete for the indefinite future.

The Royals are all in again, buckle in and enjoy the ride.

April OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Kidd Lex 08:02 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Al Bundy:
The Wade Davis for Jorge Soler trade is close to being the worst trade Moore has ever made. Soler has already proved he is not a major league baseball player. Bad defense + no hitting = AA or AAA player at best.
The difference between this team record wise and 2015 are the mia cyborgs. How many games up in the division would the team be if you changed nothing else but added Davis and Holland to the back end of the bullpen? Sad!
[Reply]
Why Not? 08:17 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by The GMDM Hypothesis:
The difference between this team record wise and 2015 are the mia cyborgs. How many games up in the division would the team be if you changed nothing else but added Davis and Holland to the back end of the bullpen? Sad!
Yep. The front office, somehow, has gone 0-3 in handling the Royals biggest asset during their championship years. They figured Holland was not worth a big contract due to injury concerns. Understandable? Sure. But this is a results based business. Holland has been fucking dominant. They figured Davis was an injury concern and they could get a productive player in return. Davis is an AS, Solar is somehow less productive than Brandon Moss. Yes, that could improve in later years, but if Soler hits 25 hrs a year starting in 2018 for several 70-80 win teams, who gives a shit? Davis is dominant now. Finally, I don't know if it's mental or physical or what but Herrera has been a bust as the closer. He was perfect in the 8th inning role. 3 huge assets. 3 misses by the staff. Very hard to overcome that.
[Reply]
Prison Bitch 08:48 AM 07-09-2017
Lol at posters who still think Herrera is a valuable trade chip


:-)!
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 09:11 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Al Bundy:
The Wade Davis for Jorge Soler trade is close to being the worst trade Moore has ever made. Soler has already proved he is not a major league baseball player. Bad defense + no hitting = AA or AAA player at best.

All that is proven Is that he sucks when he isn't getting regular ABs. They need to either commit to him as the DH at the expense of Moss or commit to him as the RF.

Originally Posted by Why Not?:
Yep. The front office, somehow, has gone 0-3 in handling the Royals biggest asset during their championship years. They figured Holland was not worth a big contract due to injury concerns. Understandable? Sure. But this is a results based business. Holland has been fucking dominant. They figured Davis was an injury concern and they could get a productive player in return. Davis is an AS, Solar is somehow less productive than Brandon Moss. Yes, that could improve in later years, but if Soler hits 25 hrs a year starting in 2018 for several 70-80 win teams, who gives a shit? Davis is dominant now. Finally, I don't know if it's mental or physical or what but Herrera has been a bust as the closer. He was perfect in the 8th inning role. 3 huge assets. 3 misses by the staff. Very hard to overcome that.

I've said it several times, but they tried hard with Holland. Thy offered him a two year deal with incentives an an option for a third year, just like they did with Minor, but Holland wanted more money and a guarantee to be the closer when he got back. They tried again after his rehab, but again, his demands for money and guarantees were more than they felt comfortable handing out to a guy topping out at 87-88 on his fastball 18 months removed from his surgery.

With Holland, there's no Minor. And they've been roughly equal this year.

Herrera has actually been really excellent in the closer role, pitching to close out the lead. He has been awful in the role in which he used to excel -nonsave situations. Some of it is a dive in the effectiveness of his secondaries.

The thing that frustrates me about Soler is that he was a player they identified as having gone through the early struggles a guy must face to tap into their full talent at the major league level. That was a purposeful part of their target of Soler ... rather than targeting a prospect return with longer periods of control.

I still believe in the combination of power and batting eye. They've got to find a way to get the guy regular ABs, but that has suffered at the expense of maximizing 2017 success.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[Reply]
Sure-Oz 09:31 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
All that is proven Is that he sucks when he isn't getting regular ABs. They need to either commit to him as the DH at the expense of Moss or commit to him as the RF.




I've said it several times, but they tried hard with Holland. Thy offered him a two year deal with incentives an an option for a third year, just like they did with Minor, but Holland wanted more money and a guarantee to be the closer when he got back. They tried again after his rehab, but again, his demands for money and guarantees were more than they felt comfortable handing out to a guy topping out at 87-88 on his fastball 18 months removed from his surgery.

With Holland, there's no Minor. And they've been roughly equal this year.

Herrera has actually been really excellent in the closer role, pitching to close out the lead. He has been awful in the role in which he used to excel -nonsave situations. Some of it is a dive in the effectiveness of his secondaries.

The thing that frustrates me about Soler is that he was a player they identified as having gone through the early struggles a guy must face to tap into their full talent at the major league level. That was a purposeful part of their target of Soler ... rather than targeting a prospect return with longer periods of control.

I still believe in the combination of power and batting eye. They've got to find a way to get the guy regular ABs, but that has suffered at the expense of maximizing 2017 success.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd rather see Soler try to hit then Moss at this point
[Reply]
Why Not? 09:31 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
All that is proven Is that he sucks when he isn't getting regular ABs. They need to either commit to him as the DH at the expense of Moss or commit to him as the RF.




I've said it several times, but they tried hard with Holland. Thy offered him a two year deal with incentives an an option for a third year, just like they did with Minor, but Holland wanted more money and a guarantee to be the closer when he got back. They tried again after his rehab, but again, his demands for money and guarantees were more than they felt comfortable handing out to a guy topping out at 87-88 on his fastball 18 months removed from his surgery.

With Holland, there's no Minor. And they've been roughly equal this year.

Herrera has actually been really excellent in the closer role, pitching to close out the lead. He has been awful in the role in which he used to excel -nonsave situations. Some of it is a dive in the effectiveness of his secondaries.

The thing that frustrates me about Soler is that he was a player they identified as having gone through the early struggles a guy must face to tap into their full talent at the major league level. That was a purposeful part of their target of Soler ... rather than targeting a prospect return with longer periods of control.

I still believe in the combination of power and batting eye. They've got to find a way to get the guy regular ABs, but that has suffered at the expense of maximizing 2017 success.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, I understand the Holland situation. He bet on himself, and so far, he's right. If he means no Minor then that would be a push, it just sucks to see a guy who was ours playing so well elsewhere, while we, I'm not sure if struggle is the right term, but at the very least are not as dominant in the pen. Agree with Soler. Commit to him as DH or let him hit regularly at Omaha until you can commit to him.
[Reply]
Al Bundy 09:34 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
All that is proven Is that he sucks when he isn't getting regular ABs. They need to either commit to him as the DH at the expense of Moss or commit to him as the RF.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What's stopping them from committing to Soler as a full time player?
[Reply]
Prison Bitch 09:43 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Al Bundy:
What's stopping them from committing to Soler as a full time player?
Nothing seeing as how they committed to Alshittys and Gordon every day
[Reply]
Fansy the Famous Bard 10:47 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Nothing seeing as how they committed to Alshittys and Gordon every day
Having shitty and Gordo in the lineup is inhibiting Soler's ability to get more AB's, currently. The team is still trying to win now, those two still have at least some current value with their positions\defense. Soler's value is his potential so he's the odd man out. At this point, Ned isn't worried about potential. His window is very, very small.

You can still hide one or even two auto-outs (two is difficult)... Throw a third in there, and you basically give up the season.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 11:07 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Al Bundy:
What's stopping them from committing to Soler as a full time player?
Yost think Bonifacio gives them a better chance to win playing RF, and has thought Moss gives them a better chance on certain days against RH pitching.

Unlike Escobar and Gordon, Soler doesn't have five years or more of trust built up with the organization.
[Reply]
penbrook 11:39 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by fahrenheit:
Having shitty and Gordo in the lineup is inhibiting Soler's ability to get more AB's, currently. The team is still trying to win now, those two still have at least some current value with their positions\defense. Soler's value is his potential so he's the odd man out. At this point, Ned isn't worried about potential. His window is very, very small.

You can still hide one or even two auto-outs (two is difficult)... Throw a third in there, and you basically give up the season.
Esky isn't an auto out anymore. Gordon will get hot for 3-4 games than he goes right back to his old self
[Reply]
penbrook 11:42 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
Lol at posters who still think Herrera is a valuable trade chip


:-)!
When you convert 18/20 saves and have a 2.2 ERA in save situations you're damn right he's a valuable trade asset. Just ask the Nats they would love to have Herrera
[Reply]
penbrook 11:45 AM 07-09-2017
Wow!! Pirates already up 10-0 on the Cubs and it's still the first inning :-)
[Reply]
tk13 11:49 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Yost think Bonifacio gives them a better chance to win playing RF, and has thought Moss gives them a better chance on certain days against RH pitching.

Unlike Escobar and Gordon, Soler doesn't have five years or more of trust built up with the organization.
Plus Gordon and Escobar still provide great defense, and we all know how this team values that.
[Reply]
Al Bundy 11:51 AM 07-09-2017
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Yost think Bonifacio gives them a better chance to win playing RF, and has thought Moss gives them a better chance on certain days against RH pitching.

Unlike Escobar and Gordon, Soler doesn't have five years or more of trust built up with the organization.
Then Soler should be in AAA playing where is competent.
[Reply]
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