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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
Strongside 08:37 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by Monticore:
Some anti body test have a high false positive .
Yeah, I know.

Regardless, the result was positive.

Some actual COVID tests themselves are somewhat inaccurate as well it seems. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get tested if you suspect you have the virus.
[Reply]
petegz28 08:37 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Your argument yesterday was basically "I don't wanna wear one" have we lost all common sense, if something is spread with airborn particles doesn't a face covering help?
A) If you read the studies like the one I posted yesterday you would see that no, the loose edges of these masks and such are not protecting you from airborne

Which led to a very worked up Monticore to point out

B) This is not an airborne virus
[Reply]
staylor26 08:37 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
I just found it interesting that you left that key piece of research out. You do agree that the flu is much more deadly than coronavirus for our younger generation right? Which is where this perception is coming from.
He’s not going to acknowledge anything out there that doesn’t fit his agenda/narrative.
[Reply]
Monticore 08:39 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
The irony is the people that want to scream this isn't a black and white thing want to lecture you for not having a black and white take on things like masks. I have read a few articles throughout all of this but I will go back to the one I posted yesterday about masks. Hamas or Monticore can speak to the actual measurements I guess.

It takes 1,000 units of the virus for a person to become infectous

And infected person expels approximately 900 units per minute from normal speaking and breathing

Masks prevent possibly up to 50% of the particles which now say takes you 900 units in 1 minute to 900 units in 2 minutes

Masks do not necessarily nor are they being alleged to prevent you from inhaling these particles. They are to prevent you from spreading not you from getting

So let's just apply some actual real world scenarios

Walking past an infected person in the grocery store will not expose you long enough to become infected as you would have to be exposed to them for over 1 minute of they are unmasked

Talking to a masked person, whether you have a mask on or not, inside of 1m of space will give you about just over 2 minutes before you start becoming infected

So as they said, the masks are not doing much good for people say in retail and you are not exposing yourself to anyone else long enough say walking through the grocery store isle to need a mask.

This is the gray area that some people both love and hate. The best thing they seem to have right now is stay 6ft away. Retail establishments need to use things like the shields and such at check out. If you have symptoms then you should be wearing a mask even though your chance of infecting someone is very minimal unless you spend several minutes talking to them within 3 ft.

So basically as many experts have said, masks are good for protecting you from someone coughing and sneezing on you and little else.
It doesn't take a medical expert to come to the conclusion that putting something over your mouth could potentially keep things out to varying degrees .
[Reply]
dirk digler 08:41 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by Bugeater:
That, and the reason why the US supply of masks was running so thin.


Spoiler!

Yep. We need to be ramping up supplies now for the fall just in case there is another outbreak. We also need to bring all this back to the US. I proposed in this very thread early on the US government should take over shuttered manufacturing plants and start using them to create PPE. It is a no brainer IMHO.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 08:42 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
The irony is the people that want to scream this isn't a black and white thing want to lecture you for not having a black and white take on things like masks. I have read a few articles throughout all of this but I will go back to the one I posted yesterday about masks. Hamas or Monticore can speak to the actual measurements I guess.

It takes 1,000 units of the virus for a person to become infectous

And infected person expels approximately 900 units per minute from normal speaking and breathing

Masks prevent possibly up to 50% of the particles which now say takes you 900 units in 1 minute to 900 units in 2 minutes

Masks do not necessarily nor are they being alleged to prevent you from inhaling these particles. They are to prevent you from spreading not you from getting

So let's just apply some actual real world scenarios

Walking past an infected person in the grocery store will not expose you long enough to become infected as you would have to be exposed to them for over 1 minute of they are unmasked

Talking to a masked person, whether you have a mask on or not, inside of 1m of space will give you about just over 2 minutes before you start becoming infected

So as they said, the masks are not doing much good for people say in retail and you are not exposing yourself to anyone else long enough say walking through the grocery store isle to need a mask.

This is the gray area that some people both love and hate. The best thing they seem to have right now is stay 6ft away. Retail establishments need to use things like the shields and such at check out. If you have symptoms then you should be wearing a mask even though your chance of infecting someone is very minimal unless you spend several minutes talking to them within 3 ft.

So basically as many experts have said, masks are good for protecting you from someone coughing and sneezing on you and little else.
Beta-blockers, potassium-sparing diuretics, and ACE-Inhibitors all have a demonstrable mortality benefit in patients with heart failure whose ejection fraction is <40%. That doesn't mean that they reduce the risk of death to 0, and it doesn't mean that their use represents a gray area. There is a clear benefit: the people who take them are less likely to die than matched controls that don't.

Notice that mitigation strategies are trying to get the R0 as low as possible. They aren't designed with a goal to get it to 0.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the goal is.
[Reply]
petegz28 08:42 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by Monticore:
It doesn't take a medical expert to come to the conclusion that putting something over your mouth could potentially keep things out to varying degrees .
And here we go again.....keyword "potentially". And the studies show the chances of getting infected by walking past an infected person while wearing a mask and not wearing a mask are statistically the same.

The mask does what most if not all of these experts are saying, they prevent you from coughing and sneezing larger droplets onto everything.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 08:43 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED:
I just found it interesting that you left that key piece of research out. You do agree that the flu is much more deadly than coronavirus for our younger generation right? Which is where this perception is coming from.
Point to a single piece of data that establishes that such information is the genesis of that belief.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 08:44 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by staylor26:
He’s not going to acknowledge anything out there that doesn’t fit his agenda/narrative.
What exactly do you think my agenda is here?
[Reply]
petegz28 08:44 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Beta-blockers, potassium-sparing diuretics, and ACE-Inhibitors all have a demonstrable mortality benefit in patients with heart failure whose ejection fraction is <40%. That doesn't mean that they reduce the risk of death to 0, and it doesn't mean that their use represents a gray area. There is a clear benefit: the people who take them are less likely to die than matched controls that don't.

Notice that mitigation strategies are trying to get the R0 as low as possible. They aren't designed with a goal to get it to 0.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the goal is.
No, I don't have a misunderstanding at all. I am just posting data that you don't agree with, which is fine.
[Reply]
Monticore 08:45 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by staylor26:
He’s not going to acknowledge anything out there that doesn’t fit his agenda/narrative.
It does but when you focus on things like that in an attempt to minimize COVID it can hurt the overall goal of trying to reduce the spread of it and the damage is it causing to people and the economy . Breast cancer tends to be more aggressive in younger women but we don't focus on that because we still want older ladies to get tested and treated .
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 08:49 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
No, I don't have a misunderstanding at all. I am just posting data that you don't agree with, which is fine.
What does the weight of evidence say mask wearing does for a person's risk of contracting or spreading the virus?
[Reply]
staylor26 08:50 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
What exactly do you think my agenda is here?
Doom and gloom.

Example:

Florida isn’t as bad as I wanted it to be so I’m going to roll with a conspiracy theory as to why the data doesn’t fit my narrative even though I shut down every conspiracy theory that doesn’t fit my narrative.
[Reply]
POND_OF_RED 08:50 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Point to a single piece of data that establishes that such information is the genesis of that belief.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...nd-S/9bhg-hcku

It’s really not that hard to find. It’s kind of scary that I’m just making you aware of this. Are you not using the CDC for your research?
[Reply]
Donger 08:50 AM 05-22-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
And here we go again.....keyword "potentially". And the studies show the chances of getting infected by walking past an infected person while wearing a mask and not wearing a mask are statistically the same.

The mask does what most if not all of these experts are saying, they prevent you from coughing and sneezing larger droplets onto everything.
So, you aren't wearing a mask and you walk past someone who has a coughing fit just then.

You are saying that a mask wouldn't stop a droplet?
[Reply]
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