Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I'd rather not dive too deeply into these issues because there's nothing productive to be done by arguing about it, but there still absolutely is systemic racism. It's not as obvious as it was 60 years ago, but it's there and it's the kind of thing that takes generations upon generations to change.
If that's what the NBA players are protesting (instead of the Jacob Blake situation which still has a lot of questions that need to be answered), that's an admirable motivation. However, it's also something that shouldn't be done lightly and overly emotionally as it carries significant implications for the future of the NBA and their own careers. There needs to be a real discussion and a real union vote if that's what they decide to do.
Right and you have to let the world know that there are a lot of good cops out there who risk their lives every day they work to help protect the American public and that we appreciate what they do.
It's the bad ones that are the problem. Not every white cop is racist scumbag waiting for any excuse to shoot a black man.
Originally Posted by eDave:
"At the end of the day, if we're gonna sit here and talk about making change, then at some point we're gonna have to put our nuts on the line and actually put something up to lose, rather than just money or visibility," Toronto Raptors guard Fred VanVleet said Tuesday. "We've gotta take responsibility as well. Like, what are we willing to give up?"
Having heard FVV talk about these things for the past few years, I'm sure he recognizes what he'd be giving up by quitting on the season (potentially tens of millions of dollars) and I'm sure he's prepared to do that.
But I don't know that all of the hundreds of other players are prepared to do that as well. A lot of them haven't made much money at all in this league and this is their one and only shot in life at making some good money. That's what they've got to figure out over the next few days.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I guess we'll see in the coming days. You'll have to take back everything you've said about him chasing titles if he does the opposite and pushes for a strike.
He would actually have to do it, not just pretend he wants to.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I see it in the hiring practices in the businesses that I'm involved in for example. I think it's really an implicit bias/unconscious thing for most. I'm sure I have my own as well.
Implicit biases in hiring is not a systemic issue. Unless there are pressures to not hire a protected class, the problem lies with the manager making the call.
Let’s be real here, if a dude is qualified, he’ll get picked up. Given the current labor market, if you’re hiring inferior labor for similar resources, you’re going to get outrun.
Maybe not in all cases, but if there are systemic problems out there I don’t know where they are.
Not that I want to start this argument (I don’t. I’m not educated enough to make a meaningful argument) but if we’re just going to blindly accept that there are tons of systemic racism out there that we should all be appalled by, I’d just like to know where it is. Because all I can see are individuals, and if you’re going to riot over individuals being assholes, then I just can’t be on board.
This is a really tough call as to whether to play. Ending the season is a very powerful statement and its absence will be a reminder. But I tend to think they can stay in the spotlight more if they keep playing and speaking out.
Man that nerdy white kid that killed the protesters and then walked up to the cops. Wtf.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Having heard FVV talk about these things for the past few years, I'm sure he recognizes what he'd be giving up by quitting on the season (potentially tens of millions of dollars) and I'm sure he's prepared to do that.
But I don't know that all of the hundreds of other players are prepared to do that as well. A lot of them haven't made much money at all in this league and this is their one and only shot in life at making some good money. That's what they've got to figure out over the next few days.
Agreed. And by rights, they better include players NOT in the bubble also that are represented by the NBAPA
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Implicit biases in hiring is not a systemic issue. Unless there are pressures to not hire a protected class, the problem lies with the manager making the call.
Let’s be real here, if a dude is qualified, he’ll get picked up. Given the current labor market, if you’re hiring inferior labor for similar resources, you’re going to get outrun.
Maybe not in all cases, but if there are systemic problems out there I don’t know where they are.
Not that I want to start this argument (I don’t. I’m not educated enough to make a meaningful argument) but if we’re just going to blindly accept that there are tons of systemic racism out there that we should all be appalled by, I’d just like to know where it is. Because all I can see are individuals, and if you’re going to riot over individuals being assholes, then I just can’t be on board.
I don't want to get deeply into this particular discussion, but I personally don't think it's possible to discuss systemic racism without also discussing implicit biases. They kind of go hand in hand for me. And I do think there's something here worth protesting that goes beyond a few piece of shit cops (the real question is whether a boycott/strike is the best way to go about that).
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
They will surely. If they're going to ditch the bubble and end the season, it definitely has to be a full union vote.
This thing shut down FAST. Now they get to think about it.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I see it in the hiring practices in the businesses that I'm involved in for example. I think it's really an implicit bias/unconscious thing for most. I'm sure I have my own as well.
Really? I'm not going to lie, if I was a hiring manager and both are equal candidate you go with the non-white guy every time. I'd be frightened to death not to.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I don't want to get deeply into this particular discussion, but I personally don't think it's possible to discuss systemic racism without also discussing implicit biases. They kind of go hand in hand for me. And I do think there's something here worth protesting that goes beyond a few piece of shit cops (the real question is whether a boycott/strike is the best way to go about that).
I don’t either. Believe me, I’m the first one to admit I’m not informed enough to enter an in earnest debate on the topic.
I just can’t buy lock stock and barrel systemic racism in this country (the kind that merits social change) without some damned compelling evidence, because I don’t see it.
As far as hiring biases go, you should look into the biases against ugly people. I’d argue those run further and deeper than race. Fact is there will ALWAYS be implicit bias. If you could in some alternate reality eliminate race, you’d find it on color tie, shoe size or some other shit.
And like I said before, if there were a ton of qualified employees that were discriminated against, some hungry business would hire them for cheaper and boat race the discriminators. Maybe not in every case, but in today’s environment it would take care of any widespread systemic racism.
Sources: Every team besides Lakers and Clippers voted to continue playing. LeBron James said in meeting he want owners to be more involved/take action.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Take Thomas Sowell for instance, his voice is absolutely more important than Lebron James and Doc Rivers for the simple fact that he’s more intelligent than either of those guys.
Maybe I've missed it but I can't recall if you were/are defending Fauci as the more important voice over everyone else.