Not Kawhi news but Woj is reporting the 76ers have offered Ben Simmons a 5 year\$170M max deal. That is fucking crazy does anybody think he is worth a max deal? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
The Bird rights wouldn't be relevant as to him, but rather Davis.
And as a trade acquisition, don't the Lakers already have Bird rights as to Davis? They get Leonard under contract now while they have the max space, then they use the Bird rights on Davis to pass the cap in 2020 and they have all 3 guys long-term (and they would have to pay up for Kuzma next year as well if they wanted to keep him).
That's why I'm saying the deal would need to happen this year for him to go to LAL or it won't happen at all. There's just not a good way to fit him in after Davis inks a max deal.
Or are you saying that he can't do the 1+1 structure and get his mega-max in 2021? I wasn't aware of that wrinkle but ultimately if he wanted to, he could do a 2+1 and then still be eligible for the same mega max deal a year later (and at that point in his career, the extra max year on the back end is likely to be more than he'd have gotten via a new deal AFTER the expiration of the 5 year term).
Is it the 'full' Bird rights that are up for discussion here? The ability to give the extra year? Or is it simply the Lakers ability to go over the cap and retain him. So if they got him on a 1+1, could the Lakers still go over the cap on a 4 year deal at 35% rather than the full Bird exception 5 year deal?
I was unaware of any stipulations requiring that he be on the team for 3 years before the Lakers could exceed the cap to retain him. I would've just thought it applied to his ability to get that 5th year only.
Raptors can give him a 5 year\$190m contract any other team can give him 4 years\$140m but he could do a 1+ 1 with Toronto then hit FA again in 2021 and make $50 million more.
Originally Posted by :
another option for Leonard would be to sign the notorious "1+1" contract — a two-year deal with a player option in the second year — for $33 million in the first year, then $36 million in the second.
Such a deal would allow Leonard to hit free agency again in 2021 when he has 10 years of experience in the league. Free agents with at least 10 years of experience can sign max contracts worth 35% of the salary cap.
Salary-cap projections for the 2021-22 season are hazy. It was recently projected at $116 million for the 2020-21 season, while Spotrac put the 2021-22 cap at $121 million. If we were to assume the cap would land at $118 million in 2021-22 season (the NBA did not immediately respond to an email about the cap projection for the 2021-22 season), Leonard could re-sign with the Raptors for five years for $239 million or join another team for four years for $177 million.
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Not Kawhi news but Woj is reporting the 76ers have offered Ben Simmons a 5 year\$170M max deal. That is ****ing crazy does anybody think he is worth a max deal?
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Not Kawhi news but Woj is reporting the 76ers have offered Ben Simmons a 5 year\$170M max deal. That is ****ing crazy does anybody think he is worth a max deal?
Yes. Absolutely.
I love the way Simmons plays. No ego. He plays the way Russell Westbrook should play. It's really a sight to behold. And he's only going to get better. [Reply]
I love the way Simmons plays. No ego. He plays the way Russell Westbrook should play. It's really a sight to behold. And he's only going to get better.
I'll take Westbrook over Simmons any day of the week. Simmons offensive game is pretty weak. He cant even shoot FTs well. He doesnt do anything great. Good overall player but max contract? No way is he worth that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
No way is he worth the max.
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Yes. Absolutely.
I love the way Simmons plays. No ego. He plays the way Russell Westbrook should play. It's really a sight to behold. And he's only going to get better.
Originally Posted by mcaj22:
If guys like Jamal Murray and Gordon Hayward are on the max then Ben absolutely should be.
Hes not close to the worst player on a max. That award goes to Chris Paul or John Wall
If he could shoot the ball and actually make it past 5-10 ft then sure but this is kind of like giving a QB $100 million who can't pass.
I love the way Simmons plays. No ego. He plays the way Russell Westbrook should play. It's really a sight to behold. And he's only going to get better.
I'd take Westbrook over Simmons any day and won't look back. Westbrook is a bad shooter but he's a fucking God of shooting compared to Simmons. Simmons is a rich man Draymond except Draymond can shoot occasionally.
I wouldn't max a player like Simmons in 2019. [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
I'd take Westbrook over Simmons any day and won't look back. Westbrook is a bad shooter but he's a ****ing God of shooting compared to Simmons. Simmons is a rich man Draymond except Draymond can shoot occasionally.
I wouldn't max a player like Simmons in 2019.
At this point, I would take Simmons over Westbrook moving forward just due to age consideration. I don't think anyone is taking Simmons straight up, but moving forward it is close. Both deserve max contracts, though.
Westbrook hurts his team so much by taking horrid bad shots over and over again. He's still a + to have on the Thunder, but the frustrating thing is if he just played with more discipline that is worth about 5 more Thunder wins a year. Not having him on the team is probably worth 13 more losses. So that is the frustrating part. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BWillie:
At this point, I would take Simmons over Westbrook moving forward just due to age consideration. I don't think anyone is taking Simmons straight up, but moving forward it is close. Both deserve max contracts, though.
Westbrook hurts his team so much by taking horrid bad shots over and over again. He's still a + to have on the Thunder, but the frustrating thing is if he just played with more discipline that is worth about 5 more Thunder wins a year. Not having him on the team is probably worth 13 more losses. So that is the frustrating part.
Simmons hurts his team more by providing literally no spacing. To the point Embiid has to turn into a 3 point shooter just to avoid clogging the lane even though he hates shooting 3s. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
Raptors can give him a 5 year\$190m contract any other team can give him 4 years\$140m but he could do a 1+ 1 with Toronto then hit FA again in 2021 and make $50 million more.
Yeah, the Raptors options are pretty straightforward.
A 1+1 gets him nearly $70 million and when he hits the market in 2021 he'd be eligible for the 35% max that's probably going to get him in the $240 range over those 5 years IF the cap maintains a steady climb. It could be even more if it spikes again.
Like I said, Toronto is a $300+ million over 7 years scenario for him and almost assuredly the most financially lucrative. More than anything, I'm curious how he could finagle a similar situation with the Lakers.
He could take some risk and seemingly do even better if he wanted to by signing with LA. Evidently he can't get the full 5 year deal with LA if he signs a 1+1 but if he did a 2+1, he could probably get something like $110 million over those three years before signing a deal for probably about $250 million over the next 5. So over 8 years he'd make $360 million in that scenario vs. $300 millionish over 7 under the Toronto scenario.
And as I've dug a little more it LOOKS like Kawhi could take a 1+1 with LAL and still have what amounts to full Bird rights under the Early Bird exception. It appears to me that after 2 years, an NBA team can re-sign it's own player for up to 175% of his previous salary while exceeding the cap. Obviously that won't be a problem because his salary will already be maxed. But I was partially right when I said that the major impediment would be the length. The Early Bird only allows for a 4 year deal.
So a 1+1 would get him the same nearly $70 million he could get with Toronto over the next 2 and then in 2021 the Lakers could offer him the 35% max for 4 years rather than for 5. So now we have a 3rd option on the table - $70 million over 2 plus about $190 over 4 totalling roughly $260 million over 6 with LAL.
So the LAL options appear to be the 2+1 setup for about $360 million over 8 years and he reaches FA at 36 years old or he could go with the 1+1 and $260 million over 6 years to reach FA at age 34. The most likely scenario with the Raptors then is either 5/$190 to reach FA at 33 (where he'd still be allowed a max deal thanks to the rule change allowing max contracts through age 38) or a 1+1+5 that would total roughly $310 million and put him in FA at 35.
Honestly, the most money, least risk option may just be to sign a 5 year 30% max deal with Toronto right now (worth roughly $191 million) and if he maintains this level of play he could go get ANOTHER max deal, this time a 35% max, that could probably be worth another $280 million or so.
The 'low risk' aspect is that he's locked in $191 million immediately. The high upside aspect is that he'll hit the market at juuuuuust a young enough age that he might be able to convince the Raptors to pony up another 5 year max to keep him in Toronto for the rest of his career. If he can, that's going to be over $550 in lifetime NBA earnings and it would crush Lebron's record (by then) of roughly $387 million.
I guess the bottom line is that this is going to be monopoly money either way. Dude's gonna be rich beyond comprehension. [Reply]
I love the way Simmons plays. No ego. He plays the way Russell Westbrook should play. It's really a sight to behold. And he's only going to get better.
HAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
You fucking serious, Clark?
Ben Simmons has a ridiculous ego. Like, so bad that he submarined an entire program in college.
He can't shoot and won't rebuild his stroke. What you call 'unselfish' is actually PEAK selfishness because his refusal to shoot means teams don't even pretend like they are going to guard him outside of 18 feet. He absolutely ruins spacing.
His refusal to shoot isn't because he's Steve Nash out there seeing all the angles. It's because he sucks at it and is too proud to fix it. So he actively hurts his teammates by not being a credible threat to shoot.
Ben Simmons may well get better, but he has to because the player he is right now can be no better than the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team. The guy is all hat, no cattle. [Reply]
I don't think guys can become that much better shooters once they get to the league. Similar to my thoughts that a QB isn't going to become accurate once he gets to the NFL.
