Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
Can you really not realize why the argument that edge rushers are becoming obsolete is ridiculous?
I’ll ask you again since I didn’t see your response. Why aren’t GMs keen to this evolution? why do teams value them so highly then? Why are teams likely going to take 3 edge rushers in the top 5 of the draft this year and not DTs?
Change is slow, teams hold onto the past. How many teams ran a spread offense last year? How many will run it this year? I'd bet dollars to donuts that teams still draft QBs to run pocket passer offenses. Elway just traded for one that guarantees that. But the team that consistently wins the SB has broken that mold.
You keep guaranteeing that 3 DEs go in the top ten...(thats conjecture on your part. [Reply]
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
Why does this keep being repeated? The sack leaders on defenses where Spags has been the DC have been DEs every year, and you could argue the success of his defenses have a direct link to how much pressure he’s able get from the edges. With the 2012 Saints being the defense he got the least pressure with.
History has also shown that spags has always put a priority on the secondary. In nyg he went on a DB's spree draft and free agency. . We aren't going to fix the secondary, the lbs, and the DEs in one season. But if we spread our money around we can eliminate the gaps in the defense. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DenverChief:
Change is slow, teams hold onto the past. How many teams ran a spread offense last year? How many will run it this year? I'd bet dollars to donuts that teams still draft QBs to run pocket passer offenses. Elway just traded for one that guarantees that. But the team that consistently wins the SB has broken that mold.
You keep guaranteeing that 3 DEs go in the top ten...(thats conjecture on your part.
And the last time Brady was actually stopped in the playoffs (put up 33 and 500 yards vs eagles and lost due to being out scored, don’t count that as being stopped) was due to an edge rusher sacking him 2.5 times who then followed it up by a SB MVP by basically single handefly being the difference.
Youre trying to argue the NFL has changed that much in 2 years and DTs have become more valuable? The best DT in the NFL couldn’t sack Brady in the SB either, what’s your explanation there? [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
History has also shown that spags has always put a priority on the secondary. In nyg he went on a DB's spree draft and free agency. . We aren't going to fix the secondary, the lbs, and the DEs in one season. But if we spread our money around we can eliminate the gaps in the defense.
Priority was on the secondary when he had Strahan, Tuck, Osi? Priority was on the secondary when he had Vernon and JPP? I mean I get your point that he’s gone after DBs in FA and drafts but you can’t ignore that’s he’s had great edge rushing groups that lead the defense in sacks and pressures on all the defenses he’s been successful with. [Reply]
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
And the last time Brady was actually stopped in the playoffs (put up 33 and 500 yards vs eagles and lost due to being out scored, don’t count that as being stopped) was due to an edge rusher sacking him 2.5 times who then followed it up by a SB MVP by basically single handefly being the difference.
Youre trying to argue the NFL has changed that much in 2 years and DTs have become more valuable? The best DT in the NFL couldn’t sack Brady in the SB either, what’s your explanation there?
The last time the Patriots missed the SB was in 2016. When they lost to Peyton Manning Broncos. That year the chiefs had 0 sacks on TB in the divisional round with Hali and Ford in full swing. The Broncos stopped TB in the AFCCG with 2.5 sacks from their OLB.
On a side note that year PM was only sacked 16 times all year in large part to his quick release. They won the SB....
Also I'm not saying DTs are more valuable. I'm saying that players that can get to the QB from the interior are more likely going to be MORE successful than those coming from the edge [Reply]
Originally Posted by DenverChief:
The last time the Patriots missed the SB was in 2016. When they lost to Peyton Manning Broncos. That year the chiefs had 0 sacks on TB in the divisional round with Hali and Ford in full swing. The Broncos stopped TB in the AFCCG with 2.5 sacks from their OLB.
On a side note that year PM was only sacked 16 times all year in large part to his quick release. They won the SB....
Do you really not understand that a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE are both edge rushers? Von Miller’s position is the equivalent of a DE in a 4-3. [Reply]
Originally Posted by J Diddy:
I heard he agreed to San Francisco deal because he realized Frank Gore was no longer there. Frank is two ford what war paint was to Berry
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
Priority was on the secondary when he had Strahan, Tuck, Osi? Priority was on the secondary when he had Vernon and JPP? I mean I get your point that he’s gone after DBs in FA and drafts but you can’t ignore that’s he’s had great edge rushing groups that lead the defense in sacks and pressures on all the defenses he’s been successful with.
Last time in NY, he spent a first and a second rounder on Eli Apple & Landon Collins, then spent a boatload for Janoris Jenkins. In 2007 & 2008 he used two firsts and a second on CBs including Aaron Ross and Michael Johnson. I mean, JPP and Vernon were good. I wouldn't say they were great in 2016. It's not saying Spags will never value pass rushers. It's just that his first priority right now to fix the DBs is consistent with how he's always built his defense.
Spags is best with DBs and he knows how important they are to his scheme. It's not just talent. He asks a lot of them with timing, communication, etc.... So if anything, he's moving money away toward the position he cares the most about. From there, what's the alternative? Do we leave a big gaping hole at DE? Or maybe we say that Okafor's a pretty darn good stopgap until we find someone better. [Reply]
Originally Posted by YontsRBake:
Do you really not understand that a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE are both edge rushers? Von Miller’s position is the equivalent of a DE in a 4-3.
Wait... so you are saying that in a DE, DT, DT, DE set up that the OLB is the equivalent of the DE? Why even bother with the DE? Just call him another DT. I think you are confused. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Last time in NY, he spent a first and a second rounder on Eli Apple & Landon Collins, then spent a boatload for Janoris Jenkins. In 2007 & 2008 he used two firsts and a second on CBs including Aaron Ross and Michael Johnson. I mean, JPP and Vernon were good. I wouldn't say they were great in 2016. It's not saying Spags will never value pass rushers. It's just that his first priority right now to fix the DBs is consistent with how he's always built his defense.
Spags is best with DBs and he knows how important they are to his scheme. It's not just talent. He asks a lot of them with timing, communication, etc.... So if anything, he's moving money away toward the position he cares the most about. From there, what's the alternative? Do we leave a big gaping hole at DE? Or maybe we say that Okafor's a pretty darn good stopgap until we find someone better.
The fact that’s he’s had a good group of pass rushers every time he’s had a successful defense and a weaker pass rushing core every time he hasn’t is not something to be ignored no matter what he’s drafting and going after in FA. Okafor, Chris Jones, Breeland Speaks is closer to what he had on the Saints than what he did on the Giants.
Justin Tuck, Osi, and Strahan were more of the reason that defense won the SB and held the best offense in history to 14 points in the SB moreso than Sam Madison, Gibril, and Aaron Ross. Do you disagree with that? [Reply]
Seth has some good gif’s on there. Okafor looks rock solid to me. With the amount of times teams throw the ball against us trying to keep up with our offense, I can see him maybe having a 6 sack year while improving our run defense. [Reply]
