Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy:
KD deserves no criticism. He was a free agent. This is America. He had the right to sign with any team he wanted. He was paid by the Thunder and he fulfilled his contract, he had no further obligation to the team.
The only criticism Lebron deserves for leaving was the dick way he announced, and the fact that he teased Cleveland fans all along the way when he never had intentions of returning. But again, Lebron was a free agent, and this is America, and he was free to sign with whomever he wished.
I don't think you are understanding my point correctly.
LeBron and KD have the right to sign contracts at whatever amount a team offers them, as well as being able to sign with any team that offers a contract.
The criticism with LeBron leaving Cleveland for Miami was the matter in how he announced it. Yeah, he's free to go where ever he wants. Doesn't mean we can't call BS on the media circus that swarmed on his TV special.
Yeah, KD could leave OKC for any team he wanted. Doesn't mean I can't criticize him for taking the easy way out and joining the team that beat him in the playoffs.
Them leaving their organizations isn't what I'm criticizing How they announced their departure and who they signed with is what I am criticizing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
I don't think you are understanding my point correctly.
LeBron and KD have the right to sign contracts at whatever amount a team offers them, as well as being able to sign with any team that offers a contract.
The criticism with LeBron leaving Cleveland for Miami was the matter in how he announced it. Yeah, he's free to go where ever he wants. Doesn't mean we can't call BS on the media circus that swarmed on his TV special.
Yeah, KD could leave OKC for any team he wanted. Doesn't mean I can't criticize him for taking the easy way out and joining the team that beat him in the playoffs.
Them leaving their organizations isn't what I'm criticizing How they announced their departure and who they signed with is what I am criticizing.
At the end of the day, that’s exactly what Lebron did. He teamed up with the second best player in the conference and another top 5 player in the East. It was a scary thought at the time. There’s a reason they were saying they were going to win “not 1, not 2,...”
It’s like people have selective amnesia. Just because it was a bit of a disappointment doesn’t mean you can change history. At the time, people felt the same way about the Heat as they did about the Warriors. Most people assumed they’d win the next several championships. The intent with KD and Lebron was no different, KD just took it a step further and executed better.
That’s why it’s semantics. Who cares whether or not Lebron lost to the Heat after being up 3-1 in the series? The Heat were a rival championship caliber team. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
I'm giving Durant shit for leaving OKC for the team that beat him in a Game 7.
That would be like Peyton leaving for New England. Or LeBron leaving Cleveland for Boston after losing to them in the playoffs and taking his jersey off.
If Durant left OKC for almost any other team who he thought could realistically win a ring, people would have problems with it, sure, but not to the extent of him leaving for Golden State. Him leaving for Golden State is the weakest move he could have made.
The difference is that KD had an in-his-prime Westbrook who just posted a season average of a triple double in the two seasons since KD left.
LeBron had the corpses of Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilguaskas. LeBron would not have left Cleveland if he could get the talent that could compete for a championship consistently there.
KD had freaking Westbrook.
i like to watch Russ, but I’m not sure I’d want to play with him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
At the end of the day, that’s exactly what Lebron did. He teamed up with the second best player in the conference and another top 5 player in the East. There’s a reason they were saying “not 1, not 2,...”
Just because it was a bit of a disappointment doesn’t mean you can change history. At the time, people felt the same way about the Heat as they did about the Warriors. Most people assumed they’d win the next several championships. The intent with LD and Lebron was no different, KD just took it a step further.
That’s why it’s semantics.
Oh, I agree. LeBron leaving for my Miami to be with Bosh and Wade was an easy way out of Cleveland and should have been a dynasty. I'd argue he should have one more ring with Miami(vs the Mavs).
By "easy way", I mean that KD joined the team that beat him in the POs. I don't think we'll ever see LeBron do that.
I don't if this is the best comparison, but could you imagine Patrick Ewing joining the Bulls? Or Tim Duncan joining the Lakers? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
Oh, I agree. LeBron leaving for my Miami to be with Bosh and Wade was an easy way out of Cleveland and should have been a dynasty. I'd argue he should have one more ring with Miami(vs the Mavs).
By "easy way", I mean that KD joined the team that beat him in the POs. I don't think we'll ever see LeBron do that.
I don't if this is the best comparison, but could you imagine Patrick Ewing joining the Bulls? Or Tim Duncan joining the Lakers?
You’re right, but the Heat were still a team inside his conferecne with a championship caliber organization and the second best player in the East. The Heat had beaten Lebron before on their way to a championship (even if it wasn’t in the playoffs). Like I said, the intent was the same and the rest is semantics. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
It’d be crazy, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Lebron in Houston.
It would be a much more even series than Warriors vs Cavs.
I'd love to see it, too.
On a tangental note, my issue with super teams is that all of this could be avoided if the NBA had a hard cap. But that's a different story.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
You’re right, but the Heat were still a team inside his conferecne with a championship caliber organization and the second best player in the East. Like I said, the intent was the same and the rest is semantics.
It's completely different to join a team that you did not just lose to in the playoffs than joining one that has no playoff history your team and you didn't lose to them in Game 7. [Reply]
At the end of the day, how can anybody fault them for doing what they did? It’s clearly was the best decision they both made in their careers. Also, you don’t think Lebron’s decision influenced KD? Of course it did. That’s what pissed me off about Lebron doing it. Guys like that are going to be mimicked.
That doesn’t mean I can’t objectively call this generation soft though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
At the end of the day, how can anybody fault them for doing what they did? And clearly was the best decision they both made in their careers.
That doesn’t mean I can’t call this generation soft though.
Thing is, I don't know if KD leaving for Golden State was the best thing for his legacy.
I think people would look at him differently if he'd stayed in OKC or went somewhere that isn't Golden State. But in terms of rings, yes, 100% the right move.
People, at the time, faulted LeBron for leaving Cleveland because of how he announced it, not that he left Cleveland. Then, he came back to Cleveland and won a ring. He redeemed that part of his legacy and has legit nothing left to prove in his career. He can retire right now and say that he was the undisputed player of his generation.
Note: Shaq's prime didn't really overlap with LeBron's. I don't think Kobe belongs in the conversation. I could respect Duncan as an argument for best in his generation, but I think LeBron's track record compared to Duncan's speaks for itself. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
Thing is, I don't know if KD leaving for Golden State was the best thing for his legacy.
I think people would look at him differently if he'd stayed in OKC or went somewhere that isn't Golden State. But in terms of rings, yes, 100% the right move.
Is his legacy set in stone? If he keeps winning (and getting Finals MVP along the way), it won’t matter at all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Is his legacy set in stone? If he keeps winning (and getting Finals MVP along the way), it won’t matter at all.
To even be considered in the same stratosphere as LeBron(which I don't he will ever be) with regards to legacy, he has to either leave Golden State or go back to OKC, IMO.
If he goes back to OKC and wins a ring, I think the damage he did can be undone.
Winning multiple Finals MVPs, while great, doesn't undo the damage he did. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
To even be considered in the same stratosphere as LeBron(which I don't he will ever be) with regards to legacy, he has to either leave Golden State or go back to OKC, IMO.
If he goes back to OKC and wins a ring, I think the damage he did can be undone.
Winning multiple Finals MVPs, while great, doesn't undo the damage he did.
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
You know how people remember Karl Malone and Charles Barkley? Great players who never won it all. Durant is not in that conversation.
This is true, yes.
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Durant owes okc nothing.
In actuality, yes, athletes don't owe any city shit. They just play a game. And I don't doubt that Durant gave it his all for OKC. But, come on, he has to go back and win a ring in OKC if he at all wants to be in the same conversation as LeBron.
LeBron has done everything can he possibly do in his career. Durant has not yet, but has time. [Reply]
In actuality, yes, athletes don't owe any city shit. They just play a game. And I don't doubt that Durant gave it his all for OKC. But, come on, he has to go back and win a ring in OKC if he at all wants to be in the same conversation as LeBron.
LeBron has done everything can he possibly do in his career. Durant has not yet, but has time.
I love KD, but he’s not as good as Lebron. He couldn’t single-handedly carry a team to the finals like Lebron can. [Reply]
