Nick Wright couldn't be any more on the mark here. It was clear LeBron was the true GOAT after 2016. The statistics are already all in his favour and the rest at this point is just gravy.
We could ask the guys that make millions playing the game? I would assume if this were taken after The Last Dance was shown MJ gets 80%-90%. I know several current players changed their minds. https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-pl...0%2811.9%25%29
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Apparently you missed the part that unlike that situation, it’s consistent with everybody else. Former players and fans agree for the most part.
Also, it’s judging guys based on 15 year careers, not a season of two 23/24 year olds.
Can you imagine LeBron playing in this 80s era of plumbers, garbagemen and mall cops? He's already shattering all of MJ's records, but you have to wonder how much better his numbers would have been against these bums.
I'm a big LeBron James defender but this idea that Jordan's Bulls played nobody is nonsense. They said in The Last Dance that those bulls teams beat more 50 or 60 win teams in the playoffs than any other team has --- ever.
Originally Posted by BWillie:
I'm a big LeBron James defender but this idea that Jordan's Bulls played nobody is nonsense. They said in The Last Dance that those bulls teams beat more 50 or 60 win teams in the playoffs than any other team has --- ever.
It was much better basketball to watch which is why ratings then were WAY higher than they are today.
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy:
It was much better basketball to watch which is why ratings then were WAY higher than they are today.
Yes and no. There was way more rough fouling which made the game not very graceful, some people like that but I personally don't. It makes for a rough watch. I think the game and how it is played today is more aesthetically appeasing.
But watching guys like Lambeer and Rodman battle people is fun too.
The low-hanging fruit is that Jordan never dealt with anyone quite like the Golden State Warriors, a historic juggernaut that just so happened to come along right smack in the middle of LeBron's stranglehold on the East.
Imagine if Jordan's prime ran parallel to Larry Bird's Celtics or Magic Johnson's Lakers? What if instead of catching the tail end of both, he instead ran into them year after year?
There's this tendency to think "Warriors" first and foremost when thinking about LeBron's trips to the Finals and while those teams certainy reign surpreme, they also in a way underscore the relative strength of his other Finals opponents. Back in 2017 I wrote about how LeBron's worst Finals opponent - the 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs - ranked in the 73rd percentile of Finals teams ever. That was before he took on the Warriors for the fourth straight year.
All nine of LeBron's Finals opponents rank among the top 36 teams ever to reach the NBA Finals, an astounding statement regarding his quality of opposition.
Even more illuminating is when you factor in how those compare to the teams Michael Jordan squared off against when ammassing that unassailable 6-0 Finals record.
That Spurs team which grades out as the worst of the nine that James played against ranks higher than four of the six teams the Bulls beat, including all three from the first three-peat.
It's a team sport!
Would LeBron have gone 6-0 against the teams Jordan faced?
Would Jordan have gone 3-6 against the teams LeBron faced?
It's impossible to know.
But in looking how each team stacked up to their respective opponents, we can get a sense for whether or not both won the right number of rings.
ELO Rating in Finals
Jordan LeBron
Team rating 1770 1687
Opponent 1706 1750
Difference +64 -63
On average, Jordan's teams entered the Finals with an ELO rating of 64 points higher than their opponents. That's about the difference this season between the Lakers and Mavericks.
If you take those Bulls teams and instead compare them to the average opponent faced by LeBron James, they would have entered the Finals with an ELO rating of just 20 points higher. That's about the difference this season between the Lakers and Bucks.
What if we do the same for LeBron?
Coincidentally, his teams on average entered with an ELO rating 63 points worse than his opponents. Even if you throw out the Warriors teams and only look at the other series, his teams on average had an ELO rating 32 points worse than their opponents.
In five of his six appearances in the Finals, Jordan entered with the better team. The exception? 1998, when the Bulls (1761) and Jazz (1762) entered with almost identical ELO ratings in what was essentially a coin flip.
It's a stark contrast when doing the same for James who entered as an ELO underdog in seven of his nine Finals, perhaps surprising given the way in which his teams have been covered. It's a referendum not only on the strength of his opposition, but the quality of his own teams. The only two times he entered with the superior team were in 2013 and 2011.
