What’s everyone’s opinion on the Holland/Hicks/Matheny story? Seems like standard rookie/Vet hazing so I’m not getting the National attention this story has gotten.
Now the snitching part, that’s not cool at all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
What’s everyone’s opinion on the Holland/Hicks/Matheny story? Seems like standard rookie/Vet hazing so I’m not getting the National attention this story has gotten.
Now the snitching part, that’s not cool at all.
Norris rather than Holland, correct?
Not all that surprising. Matheny is a dipshit and Norris is known as one of the worst teammates in baseball.
This stuff probably happens everywhere to some extent, but Norris takes it to a different level of douchiness. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi:
Norris rather than Holland, correct?
Not all that surprising. Matheny is a dipshit and Norris is known as one of the worst teammates in baseball.
This stuff probably happens everywhere to some extent, but Norris takes it to a different level of douchiness.
Yes, Norris.
Another national article about Mathenys clubhouse being a disaster out today. Maybe just maybe this is our last year of having to endure Matheny. [Reply]
That interview with Dewitt was such a BS fluff piece. He said nothing but the same old shit he says in every interview since he got here. Matheny is doing a great job. The coaching staff are working hard. The team has maybe under performed but we have the talent to compete for the wild card. No reason we cant turn this around. etc. etc.
These beat writers are so afraid of losing their access that cant write shit criticizing the Cardinals in any way. I understand your not going to get Dewitt to say anything different. Thats okay. Your not going to badger the guy into a different answer and then you no longer have access. Thats understandable.
Where the line is crossed with beat writers is in the example from today's column. He called it "disgruntled pockets of the fan base". Does he really think that? Its only a small % of fans that are upset with the direction of the team. Really? Why did a supposedly independent writer try to minimize in his own words the fan discontent? The only reason is to suck up to the team and Dewitt.
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
That interview with Dewitt was such a BS fluff piece. He said nothing but the same old shit he says in every interview since he got here. Matheny is doing a great job. The coaching staff are working hard. The team has maybe under performed but we have the talent to compete for the wild card. No reason we cant turn this around. etc. etc.
These beat writers are so afraid of losing their access that cant write shit criticizing the Cardinals in any way. I understand your not going to get Dewitt to say anything different. Thats okay. Your not going to badger the guy into a different answer and then you no longer have access. Thats understandable.
Where the line is crossed with beat writers is in the example from today's column. He called it "disgruntled pockets of the fan base". Does he really think that? Its only a small % of fans that are upset with the direction of the team. Really? Why did a supposedly independent writer try to minimize in his own words the fan discontent? The only reason is to suck up to the team and Dewitt.
Beat writers are becoming obsolete.
Most Pirates beat writers are the same way. They also defend the front office just to differ from the fan base. [Reply]
"Everything that didn't work for us in the 1st half will work in the 2nd half. And if all the things that didn't work in the 1st had WOULD have worked, we'd have a better record..."
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Lord that was awful.
"Everything that didn't work for us in the 1st half will work in the 2nd half. And if all the things that didn't work in the 1st had WOULD have worked, we'd have a better record..."
Fuck right off, man.
He's very practiced at that shit. He's an old guy, cant expect him to change. It would be so unusual for him to criticize anyone on the team publicly. At least that's what I'm holding out hope that's the case.
We are going to have the 3rd largest attendance in baseball this year. Will elder Dewitt do a damn thing different? Fire Matheny? I'm not very hopeful today. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Carr4MVP:
Most Pirates beat writers are the same way. They also defend the front office just to differ from the fan base.
Thats why they are becoming obsolete. What good is your access to the locker room, practices, after and before games conversations with players if you report nothing but public statements and what happened on the field?
We always find out shit years later that explains WTF happened with the team or player.
I dont want to read gossip shit like some player said something about what music was being played etc. But, now everyone is saying they have known all year that Fowler and Matheny didn't talk and seem to hate each other. Thats pertinent to me as a fan. [Reply]
Part of that article that I think was mentioned earlier -
Originally Posted by :
At this point, it’s difficult to understand why ownership-management would continue to stand by Matheny. Unless, of course, they have a fondness for fielding a depressingly dull and ragged baseball team that loses too many games to bad teams at Busch Stadium. Or perhaps ownership-management is digging the the jolts of negative national attention that have made the Cardinals the target of scorn and ridicule. As we keep saying here: the Cardinal brand is being sullied, and I’m not sure why this is acceptable to the good men who serve as caretakers of a venerated franchise.
Matheny isn’t winning. He’s lowered the standards. (Remember: a 10-13 record represents “playing well.”) He hasn’t put a well-drilled team on the field for a long time. He plays favorites, treating some players better than others. He hasn’t improved tactically. He’s stubborn, set in his ways, still welded to that thick front door of the baseball old school, and not much interested in analytics or your newfangled, nerdy ideas.
Too many St. Louis players are underachieving. Successful players come to the Cardinals from other MLB teams, and play worse. Fowler (this season) left fielder Marcell Ozuna, reliever Brett Cecil and the since-traded starting pitcher Mike Leake are four examples.
Why is that? Is at least part of this attributable to the culture?
Sorry, but it doesn’t make sense when three former Cardinals who were sent away — Matt Adams, Randal Grichuk and Stephen Piscotty — each had more extra-base hits than Ozuna’s 20 xbh through Wednesday.
When Tony La Russa managed the Cardinals from 1996 through 2011, an astonishing number of players improved immediately after signing with the Cardinals, or being dealt to St. Louis.
And yes, I went through each roster and checked the stats on each player that got a new start by joining La Russa’s team. All of these players had a positive spike in stats in their first seasons under La Russa. And I didn’t even include all of the names. I left off some marginal examples.
Position players: Delino DeShields, Mark McGwire, Fernando Tatís, Edgar Renteria, Craig Paquette, Jim Edmonds, Fernando Viña, Mike Matheny (!), Eduardo Perez, Tony Womack, David Eckstein, Scott Spiezio, Scott Rolen (until suffering shoulder injuries), Ryan Ludwick, Jason LaRue, Gerald Laird, Aaron Miles, Mark Grudzielanek, Troy Glaus, Cesar Izturis, Matt Holliday, Lance Berkman, Nick Punto, Rafael Furcal.
Pitchers — with credit to pitching coach Dave Duncan: Chris Carpenter, Andy Benes, Jeff Suppan, Kyle Lohse, Jason Marquis, Woody Williams, Darryl Kile, Garrett Stephenson, Joel Pineiro, Todd Wellemeyer, Mark Mulder (in 2005, before a shoulder injury in 2006), Kent Bottenfield, Jake Westbrook, Darren Oliver, Edwin Jackson, Octavio Dotel, Jeff Weaver, Juan Acevedo, Chuck Finley, Cal Eldred, Mike Timlin, Troy Percival, Jason Isringhausen, Steve Kline, Ray King, Trever Miller, Russ Springer, Julian Tavarez, Dave Veres.
La Russa and Duncan had a few players and pitchers perform worse after coming to St. Louis, but it’s an awfully short list when compared to the lengthy roll call of success stories. Position players Eric Davis, Juan Encarnacion, Shawon Dunston (marginally), Adam Kennedy, Mark DeRosa (who got hurt), and Tino Martinez. Pitchers: Kent Mercker, Brett Tomko, Miguel Batista, Jeff Brantley, Scott Radinsky, Marc Rzepczynski. And I’m probably stretching it to include names such as Tomko and Batista.
As for Matheny…
Position players who improved: Jhonny Peralta (for 1½ seasons), Heyward, Brandon Moss, Jedd Gyorko.
Position players that got worse: Fowler (in 2018), Ozuna, Peter Bourjos, Mark Reynolds. And in Matheny’s case, I’m not including old guys who came here and broke down, like second baseman Mark Ellis and catcher Brayan Peña.
Pitchers who improved: Really, it’s pretty much all relievers. But some nice career-best seasons from Edward Mujica, Pat Neshek. And upturns from Bud Norris, John Axford, Randy Choate, Steve Cishek (here two-plus months) and Carlos Villanueva.
Pitchers that got worse: John Lackey (in 2014, but better in ‘15), Leake, Justin Masterson, Cecil, Matt Belisle (got injured). There’s also Greg Holland; Matheny really pushed management to sign him and wouldn’t let up. And it’s too soon to know about Luke Gregerson and Dominic Leone because of injuries.
The thing with Ozuna, though, is that is he really playing worse or just not out of his mind? He had one insane year with the Marlins but before that he was a guy that was on the verge of being sent back to the minors his entire career. If you look at Ozuna this year compared to his first 4 seasons with the Marlins and its not far off from his best in those years. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jd1020:
The thing with Ozuna, though, is that is he really playing worse or just not out of his mind? He had one insane year with the Marlins but before that he was a guy that was on the verge of being sent back to the minors his entire career. If you look at Ozuna this year compared to his first 4 seasons with the Marlins and its not far off from his best in those years.
He made the all-star team in 2016 as well before an injury and a slump in the 2nd half.
He really started to turn the corner when he came back up in 2015 after the Marlins dicked around with his service time following what appeared to be a significant breakout in 2014 (had a 4+ win season as a 23 yr old in his first full year). He was a former top 100 prospect with a strong pedigree and a longer track record of strong play than of being an underperformer.
A reasonable expectation was somewhere between what he was in 2016 and 2017. Maybe 25 bombs and a .290/.350/.500 kind of triple slash couldn't be seen as overly optimistic as he continued through his prime.
Take a look at what David Peralta's doing this season. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to have expected that kind of strong season from Ozuna. A 4-5 win season shouldn't have been out of reach at all.
He's just not getting the job done; putting him in distinguished company with a fair number of other players that have come to St. Louis and gotten worse or left St. Louis and gotten better.
He's sitting at 10 HRs right now with 48 RBIs, so he's not that far off from meeting those numbers. What's down are the doubles and triples that are killing his SLG%. His last month of production is, lets say, less than optimistic, however. [Reply]
