The NFL competition committee has proposed a new rule that would penalize a player with a 15-yard penalty and grant the opposition an automatic first down for using the hip-drop tackle to bring a runner to the ground.
Originally Posted by DaFace:
Again, no one is saying that won't happen. Defenders who end up behind the runner could stop them more easily using a horse collar tackle, so banning those creates situations where the runner gets more yards.
This is a different type of tackle, but the result will be the same. Once or twice a game, a runner might get more yards than they would have before. It's OK. Games will still be fun.
Look man, I'm not a fan of the drop tackle. Or the horse collar. I've posted many times about how I hate both of those tackles. But that's not the point here. The point is what the league has decided is not a legal tackle anymore.
Watch that video above again. Many of those tackles the NFL wants to get out of the game (presumably by flagging them) are just tackles. If they actually ref it that way, there'll be laundry all over the field all game, unless defenders just quit on plays just because they're slightly behind the runner.
I mean, maybe the player will figure out how to tackle these faster players without allowing their lower bodies to swing (from a purely physics standpoint this is problematic), but I doubt that's what's going to happen. More likely we'll see a further degradation of the quality of the game, as we watch players just simply give up on tackles in an effort not to draw a flag/fine. Same as defenders allowing QBs to escape or just hugging them instead of hitting them is making pass-rushers less effective as any contact outside of a very specific strike zone or if excessive force is used is now a flaggable/fineable offense that they have to wary of.
And btw, that's always been the cost of doing your job poorly on a football field. You're supposed to get hit hard if you don't do your job correctly in the NFL. That's the price. This whole huggy-squeezy/lay him down as gently as possible/don't hit him below the knees/don't hit him above the nipples/don't hit him too hard thing isn't football. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501: https://youtu.be/5KJ9mCbS3rU?si=078ye8udUjAAh9oT
This is a pretty interesting video looking at it from a rugby perspective. The main theme is just trying to avoid tackles that put lots of pressure on the knees and lower body. Football is of course a different animal but a lot of interesting thoughts here.
Every time I see a guys legs pinned under with upper body twisting I cringe.
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Look, I've said a hundred times that I hate the drop tackle. I'm not advocating for keeping drop tackles. I'm asking, in reference to that clip above, just what are those defenders supposed to do? I get flagging the first one; it's basically exactly the same as the ones in the rugby video. That shit needs to go.
But the two I pointed out, and several others in the video, are just tackles, imo. So tell me, just what are they supposed to do in those other cases?
I think you start with a broad definition, over-enforce it in the preseason, use primarily fines (not penalties) early on… and see how coaches adapt. Some of those examples seem pretty broad. But using that rugby video there seems to be a few with grabbing that seemed borderline horse collar and several examples of pinning the knees down where it’s suggested tacklers should try to use the ground instead of the players knees. Sometimes that’s unavoidable but maybe just overemphasizing different techniques will make it less common.
Some of those seem pretty bang bang but there are several in that video where I think we can all see the body is twisting in ways that aren’t ideal. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I think you start with a broad definition, over-enforce it in the preseason, use primarily fines (not penalties) early on… and see how coaches adapt. Some of those examples seem pretty broad. But using that rugby video there seems to be a few with grabbing that seemed borderline horse collar and several examples of pinning the knees down where it’s suggested tacklers should try to use the ground instead of the players knees. Sometimes that’s unavoidable but maybe just overemphasizing different techniques will make it less common.
Some of those seem pretty bang bang but there are several in that video where I think we can all see the body is twisting in ways that aren’t ideal.
Well, yeah, and I've already said twice now that most of the examples in the rugby video are exactly the kind of tackle the NFL should ban. Such as the one Pat was the recipient of a couple seasons ago. That one was blatantly meant to injure, imo.
It's the other ones I'm concerned about that are basically the only way that defender is making that tackle in that situation. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I think you start with a broad definition, over-enforce it in the preseason, use primarily fines (not penalties) early on… and see how coaches adapt.
Btw, this is a crappy plan. Basically you're saying we just need to get used to shitty reffing because of shitty rules to watch bad games early in the season and hope they sort it out as the seasons wears on. And then rinse and repeat every year forward, I guess? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Btw, this is a crappy plan. Basically you're saying we just need to get used to shitty reffing because of shitty rules to watch bad games early in the season and hope they sort it out as the seasons wears on. And then rinse and repeat every year forward, I guess?
No I think use the preseason to overemphasize to see how this looks in action. During the season I prefer using small fines and warnings early on instead of penalties that could get hog wild. Use the early days as teaching opportunities for both refs and players.
I imagine the nfl will instead overemphasize rules early in the season in general. It’s not my favorite approach but we’ve seen this so many times where the league tries to emphasize something early (see jawaan Taylor false starts) then dials it back when they realize it’s severely disrupting flow of game. As bad as nfl officiating is I trust that they don’t want this to lead to a flag fest anymore than we do. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Well, yeah, and I've already said twice now that most of the examples in the rugby video are exactly the kind of tackle the NFL should ban. Such as the one Pat was the recipient of a couple seasons ago. That one was blatantly meant to injure, imo.
It's the other ones I'm concerned about that are basically the only way that defender is making that tackle in that situation.
The nfl needs to do more than just release a video. I agree some of those examples look too borderline to enforce. Talk with the players union about what’s reasonable. If fines are involved you’d have to think they’ll be loud about this. Maybe that video at some point turns into half. Because there are several examples where you can see how the grab from behind and pinning down with the other players legs is stuff you can actually de-emphasize.
It will be a little ugly at first. Kind of like the pitch clock in baseball. I’d rather they get their ducks in a row first but at this point I’m also kinda used to the nfl kind of storming and norming major rule changes [Reply]
The game will get slower with more penalties, more bullshit and continued backsliding on what is football.
Guys are going just stop playing D.
You need a PHD to know what is a legit hit, what is a catch, what is a fumble or INT, what is offsides, what is roughing the passer and what is intentional grounding. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
I haven't been paying close attention to this, but I'm a little surprised to see people against banning the tackle type that almost cost us a Super Bowl. It seems like every time this kind of tackle happens the player is getting hurt, so it won't bother me to see them come down on it.
As for the arguments that they're ruining the game by eliminating offense or whatever, that doesn't make a ton of sense to me. The NFL is more popular than ever after two decades of neutering defenses. You can have your 7-6 final score games - I'll take offensive excitement.
Every year they make new rules and it's always in favor of the offense or making the game less physical. It's ridiculous. There needs to be more balance because eventually every D is going to be pretty much trash and the league will turn into the area football league.
Also, lets keep it real there weren't many 7-6 games even back in the day and there's nothing wrong with watching good defense. The Ravens D w Ray Lewis, Chiefs D in 1990s, Bucs D w Warren Sapp and company, Steelers w Polamalu were a joy to watch. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
Every year they make new rules and it's always in favor of the offense or making the game less physical. It's ridiculous. There needs to be more balance because eventually every D is going to be pretty much trash and the league will turn into the area football league.
Also, lets keep it real there weren't many 7-6 games even back in the day and there's nothing wrong with watching good defense. The Ravens D w Ray Lewis, Chiefs D in 1990s, Bucs D w Warren Sapp and company, Steelers w Polamalu were a joy to watch.
And yet last year was a great year for defenses. Including our own. Defenses will adapt. From a player safety standpoint of course rules will and should favor offense. Because they are way more vulnerable to game and season impacting injuries and as long as that advantage is huge then defenses have an advantage and incentive to play dirty.
No position is more crucial to good game play in any sport than qb. And defenseless WRs are easily one of the most vulnerable on the field. So yeah, anyone would take arena league with the best players than replacement league with backups. I’m pretty sure of that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by wazu:
This is really helpful actually.
You clearly didn't watch the video of the examples the NFL is saying will be illegal. Most of those are just tackles. The rugby style stuff should be banned, but that's not what is happening in the video the NFL put out. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
You clearly didn't watch the video of the examples the NFL is saying will be illegal. Most of those are just tackles. The rugby style stuff should be banned, but that's not what is happening in the video the NFL put out.
Their video is bad, I agree. But they have stated the emphasis will be on dropping your own body weight on the ball carrier’s legs. The rugby video highlights assholes who have turned that into an art form so people can see what is meant by that. [Reply]
I'm telling you right now we are going to see a huge increase in offenses targeting tight ends in the flats because this rule makes it EXTREMELY difficult for smaller DBs to get tight ends on the ground from any angle that is to the side or behind them. https://t.co/Sv7J5smDNE
