Post here. Pertinent free agent signings can still have their own thread. Anyone who replies with a Q, because something is buried in this thread should blah blah AIDS tree. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chargem:
We traded a first in 2019 and a 2nd in 2020.
The Chiefs received the 49ers second round pick in the Dee Ford trade, who was never going to be a part of the Chiefs after his offside penalty in the 2018 AFC Championship game.
That trade allowed them to give up their 2019 first round selection for Clark.
Revisionist history, especially after a Super Bowl victory, is a complete and utter waste of time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BryanBusby:
Of course the Chiefs got workeed in the value, but it's like people forget just how shitty the first round talent was in last years class.
The Seahawks knew it was a shit class too and well no way we were going to get great value. This board was going berserk for a guy in the first round that they got an entire round later.
All you have to do is look at who the Seahawks drafted to replace him at 29. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
Did you watch the playoffs?
I'm watching free agency right now, where the team is fucking around with Sammy Watkins even though they knew the very instant this deal was signed that he wouldn't be able to stick around for all 3 years of the contract as it was constructed.
That's an example of a player who came up big in the playoffs. Fucking great. Glad he's here. But not at $21 million.
I really enjoyed that Super Bowl run. I'd kind of like to see more of these Super Bowl runs in the future. And I just don't think you get there by desperately clinging to players like Watkins just because he had some big moments in the playoffs. Not when he is incapable of playing 16 games or breaking 1000 yards even though he's the WR1 for 4-5 weeks of the season.
Same goes for Clark. The coming up big thing is great. It really is. And unlike Watkins, he doesn't have an injury history to worry about. But I also think people remember Clark for his end-of-game sacks that were more effort than ability.
I DID enjoy the Derrick Henry and Janeane Garafalo shit talking. That was great. Maybe next time don't pay a 1st AND 2nd round pick for it, though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
All you have to do is look at who the Seahawks drafted to replace him at 29.
EXACTLY.
It's easy to say Z'Darrius Smith could have had the same impact. That assumes they could have signed him instead of Green Bay and also assumes he fits as well in Spagnuolo's defense as Clark. Smith looked like a helpless little bitch as his team got embarrassed by the San Francisco running game.
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I'm watching free agency right now, where the team is ****ing around with Sammy Watkins even though they knew the very instant this deal was signed that he wouldn't be able to stick around for all 3 years of the contract as it was constructed.
That's an example of a player who came up big in the playoffs. ****ing great. Glad he's here. But not at $21 million.
I really enjoyed that Super Bowl run. I'd kind of like to see more of these Super Bowl runs in the future. And I just don't think you get there by desperately clinging to players like Watkins just because he had some big moments in the playoffs. Not when he is incapable of playing 16 games or breaking 1000 yards even though he's the WR1 for 4-5 weeks of the season.
Same goes for Clark. The coming up big thing is great. It really is. And unlike Watkins, he doesn't have an injury history to worry about. But I also think people remember Clark for his end-of-game sacks that were more effort than ability.
I DID enjoy the Derrick Henry and Janeane Garafalo shit talking. That was great. Maybe next time don't pay a 1st AND 2nd round pick for it, though.
They effectively traded Bitchmade Dee and a first (in a pretty weak draft) for Clark. I have no problem with that price point. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I'm watching free agency right now, where the team is fucking around with Sammy Watkins even though they knew the very instant this deal was signed that he wouldn't be able to stick around for all 3 years of the contract as it was constructed.
That's an example of a player who came up big in the playoffs. Fucking great. Glad he's here. But not at $21 million.
I really enjoyed that Super Bowl run. I'd kind of like to see more of these Super Bowl runs in the future. And I just don't think you get there by desperately clinging to players like Watkins just because he had some big moments in the playoffs. Not when he is incapable of playing 16 games or breaking 1000 yards even though he's the WR1 for 4-5 weeks of the season.
Same goes for Clark. The coming up big thing is great. It really is. And unlike Watkins, he doesn't have an injury history to worry about. But I also think people remember Clark for his end-of-game sacks that were more effort than ability.
I DID enjoy the Derrick Henry and Janeane Garafalo shit talking. That was great. Maybe next time don't pay a 1st AND 2nd round pick for it, though.
You do realize that if you don’t overpay for Sammy and Clark, you probably don’t have a SB this year and waste 3 years (and probably more) of having Mahomes on a rookie deal?
I love you bud, but this is an awful take. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. [Reply]
They effectively traded Bitchmade Dee and a first (in a pretty weak draft) for Clark. I have no problem with that price point.
Watching Dee in the SB reminded me of a baseball team who let go of a starting pitcher who had flashy stats but concerning peripherals and then proceed to own that pitcher in matchups the following year.
Dee was flat-out erased in the Super Bowl and wanted zero part of Mitch by the end of the game. It was beautiful. [Reply]
So basically, we’re bitching about the second round pick. The second round pick that we basically got back when we traded Ford. The guy that fucked up and cost us a Super Bowl appearance. The guy that couldn’t set the edge that we would have had to pay $16 mil. per year to retain so we still had a pass rush since we didn’t trade for Clark.
So that’s what we’re upset about correct? That late second round pick as ‘extra cost’ or ‘overpay’ to upgrade from Dee Ford (one dimensional player that doesn’t come up big in big games) to Frank Clark (all around strong DE that made big plays in big moments).
Originally Posted by Chargem:
I think Veach has done a good job, I think Clark is a good player. Doesn't make this deal a good one just because the Chiefs won the Superbowl. If you walked into a casino and put everything you own on red, just because you win doesn't mean it was a good idea.
Actually, it does...
A Super Bowl win justifies that deal in a big way! [Reply]
Generally speaking a good amount of people would tell you giving up a high draft pick to pay someone a big contract is bad value. Obviously the value is in the cheap years etc etc.
I give the Chiefs a pass here because 1 they had to change that defensive culture very badly and 2 they were a full on and still are a win now team. I get the value argument but it worked so there shouldn't be complaining. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Generally speaking a good amount of people would tell you giving up a high draft pick to pay someone a big contract is bad value. Obviously the value is in the cheap years etc etc.
I give the Chiefs a pass here because 1 they had to change that defensive culture very badly and 2 they were a full on and still are a win now team. I get the value argument but it worked so there shouldn't be complaining.
But if you’re going to make the value argument, it isn’t fair to just say a “1st and a 2nd”. Not all draft picks are created equal.
We clearly had to give up a 2nd to seal the deal because our 1st was the 29th pick in a very weak draft.
Value wise it was a little more than an early 2nd and early 3rd.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
But if you’re going to make the value argument, it isn’t fair to just say a “1st and a 2nd”. Not all draft picks are created equal.
We clearly had to give up a 2nd to seal the deal because our 1st was the 29th pick in a very weak draft.
Value wise it was a little more than an early 2nd and early 3rd.
It’s really that simple.
There are lots of people that will literally say "You don't give up draft picks for the right to pay someone 100 million dollars"
The Chiefs certainly better hope they have a handle on giving Watkins a new deal pretty soon here or there are going to be some problems though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
You do realize that if you don’t overpay for Sammy and Clark, you probably don’t have a SB this year and waste 3 years (and probably more) of having Mahomes on a rookie deal?
I love you bud, but this is an awful take. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I've never bitched about Watkins in the two years he's been here. And my "bitching" about him now is to let the guy go. If not for the team's sake, then for his sake. Veach has got him by the balls in this matter. He either extends and restructures the way the team wants, or he gets cut and has to move to yet another new team and do it for a contract that would be much less than what he could have had if he had been a FA a month earlier.
And as far as Clark is concerned, we can agree to disagree. He's a fine player and he made contributions to our Super Bowl championship. I just happen to believe the Chiefs could have done it without him. And nothing against Clark, but it's kind of upsetting that Chris Jones is going to get dicked by this franchise but Clark is the one who's going to stay around even though he's not as good of a player as Jones.
I'd also just like to point out a cautionary tale of the 2015 Royals. Flags fly forever. We all witnessed it. It was magical and incredible when it happened. And when it was over, we had to figure out the most likely way to get the team back into the MLB playoffs and hopefully recapture a magical run. The team extended the true hometown hero, who saved Game 1 of the World Series. He even gave them a hometown discount of sorts. And that contract was definitely a part of the Royals missing out on one last run in 2016. I'm not blaming it for the collapse-- the Royals were always going to collapse, because that's how small market teams go in MLB. But the more we dug in our heels to preserve the past, the less likely we were to replicate it.
And I don't want to see the same happen to these Chiefs. Mahomes is always going to give us the chance to go on a Super Bowl run as long as we're smart and stop doing so many "win right now!" things in the offseason. It was important to get to this point, but now is not the time to hang on to Alex Gordons. We don't need Alex Gordons to win the Super Bowl next year. [Reply]
