I'm not surprised Montana won it. He was my #1 until Brady came along, and remains my #2. I'm certainly not going to bad-mouth the guy. He was pure money, and fun as hell to watch.
Interesting that there's clearly just two guys at the very top, and everyone else is waaaay behind. Brady, in 2nd, got more votes than everyone else combined, and then Joe in turn was a pretty good distance ahead of Brady.
The Brady/Manning debate isn't much of a debate anymore it seems. It certainly consumed a ton of bandwidth at one time across the entire internet, including here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
The Chiefs and Broncos have played each other 118 times in their history. In those 118 games, the Broncos averaged a score of 20.6 points. The two teams played 33 games against each other from 1983 through 1998, when John Elway was active. In those 33 games, the Broncos averaged a score of 21.1 points. So Elway was worth half a point per game over the likes of Jake Plummer, Trevor Simien, Kelly Tripucka, and Tim Tebow.
Elway was a mediocre quarterback.
I know you're better at stats than that. Some of those years the Chiefs were fielding absurdly good defenses.
Let's put everything else aside -- if he was mediocre, then you (and other Chiefs fans) wouldn't hate him. Mediocrity doesn't earn hatred, it most typically earns apathy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
And Mahomes is playing in the most QB friendly era with a genius offensive HC... So if you are going to criticize Brady for that make sure you bring up what I just mentioned the next time you brag about Mahomes throwing 50 TDs and winning MVP. Can't have it both ways.
Every great QB has had benefits of good to great supporting cast.. Again, team game.
Brady has had the luxury of having absolutely everything from front office to coaching to the right offensive and defensive talent around him.
He's had every piece to the puzzle because NE does all of the right things.
Mahomes would still be elite and an MVP candidate if he didn't play in KC, but there's no way Brady sniffs 6 sbs and is considered the GOAT if he didn't have all of the pieces in place. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I know you're better at stats than that. Some of those years the Chiefs were fielding absurdly good defenses.
Let's put everything else aside -- if he was mediocre, then you (and other Chiefs fans) wouldn't hate him. Mediocrity doesn't earn hatred, it most typically earns apathy.
He played for a successful division rival. That will always earn hate.
I get more annoyed with the Elway hype than anything. If you dig into his stats, he’s really nothing special.
Even if you account for not playing in a “Passing league”, his stats are still mediocre. 3200 yards, 19 TDs, 14 picks per year. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I know you're better at stats than that. Some of those years the Chiefs were fielding absurdly good defenses.
Let's put everything else aside -- if he was mediocre, then you (and other Chiefs fans) wouldn't hate him. Mediocrity doesn't earn hatred, it most typically earns apathy.
The Chiefs fielded absurdly good defenses in other years too, though. There was a ten year stretch before Mr. Elway intruded into our division where the Chiefs were fielding five to six Hall of Famers on defense in the same lineup. Mr. Elway was in the lineup for more than 25 percent of our games against them, so it all evens out in terms of competition.
I actually despise him in part because he WAS mediocre and somehow gets this "greatness" label when every single objective measurement says that he was mediocre. The only area where he excelled was that he played a long time, and he was a #1 pick (by the Colts). He also forced his way from the Colts to a playoff-caliber team, which bolstered his numbers artificially.
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
He played for a successful division rival. That will always earn hate.
I get more annoyed with the Elway hype than anything. If you dig into his stats, he’s really nothing special.
Even if you account for not playing in a “Passing league”, his stats are still mediocre. 3200 yards, 19 TDs, 14 picks per year.
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
The Chiefs fielded absurdly good defenses in other years too, though. There was a ten year stretch before Mr. Elway intruded into our division where the Chiefs were fielding five to six Hall of Famers on defense in the same lineup. Mr. Elway was in the lineup for more than 25 percent of our games against them, so it all evens out in terms of competition.
I actually despise him in part because he WAS mediocre and somehow gets this "greatness" label when every single objective measurement says that he was mediocre. The only area where he excelled was that he played a long time, and he was a #1 pick (by the Colts). He also forced his way from the Colts to a playoff-caliber team, which bolstered his numbers artificially.
Yes. Yes. (Pause.) Yes.
Eli Manning has thrown touchdowns at a higher rate than Elway and thrown interceptions at a lower rate than Elway. Elway was basically Eli Manning. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Brady has had the luxury of having absolutely everything from front office to coaching to the right offensive and defensive talent around him.
He's had every piece to the puzzle because NE does all of the right things.
Mahomes would still be elite and an MVP candidate if he didn't play in KC, but there's no way Brady sniffs 6 sbs and is considered the GOAT if he didn't have all of the pieces in place.
Okay so Mahomes>Brady. Thanks for clearing that up [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Eli Manning has thrown touchdowns at a higher rate than Elway and thrown interceptions at a lower rate than Elway. Elway was basically Eli Manning.
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Brady has had the luxury of having absolutely everything from front office to coaching to the right offensive and defensive talent around him.
He's had every piece to the puzzle because NE does all of the right things.
Mahomes would still be elite and an MVP candidate if he didn't play in KC, but there's no way Brady sniffs 6 sbs and is considered the GOAT if he didn't have all of the pieces in place.
Not to mention what a shitshow the AFCE has been for virtually all of Brady’s “reign”, it’s been an almost guaranteed 6 wins for them over the years
I just watched a 30 minute Montana highlight earlier, and Brady has NEVER taken some of the shots Joe did
Montana’s era was sooo much tougher than what Brady dealt with, it’s not even close
Montana wins, you were never leaving here with a victory [Reply]